zanza used to be popular bec of the admins who run it and they used to abuse allies for subs to reach 10k,but they only recruited inside zanza family.
so they abused allies but not as much as Chain of memories and VG did.
now? now they barley exist, zanza is full of the inactive zanza oldies,anubis sparrers,and staff.

1. They reached 1k, not 10k, and I believe it took them 16 months.

2. Untrue, at some point near 800 hours, they had a "Helsing helper" guild named HeIsing (with an i) used for temps. It wasn't allied, though.

3. And how does Zanza having subs count as "not abusing as much" as CoM or VG, taking the above statement into account?

1. That's because zanza is a family guild not a tower taking guild. I was in it for a little and basically it went like this: member: hey wanna take a tower guys I'm bored. Leader: sure everyone get your helsing tags! Not like other tower guilds. Who just take towers 24/7 trying to get their hat as fast as possible.

2. Not allied doesn't count. You can have as many unallied helpers as you want. That's not abuse of the system.

3. Theyre not noobcruiting like most others. They had subs and everything but they were filled with loyal members. They never recruited temps.

They did. And it got annoying after a while.

Godzilla, your idea of a temp is far different than mine... A temp in Magic and many other guilds refers to a member in the testing phase. It's to see if that player would make a good permanent member. I think it's pefectly fine if guilds want to do this.

Let's get this clear once and for all. Ventrue and Charm both use subs as allies. Guess that means they "abuse" allies as well, right? As for Knoble, I was curious and checked out the member list: About 6-8 out of the 18 members were off-tag, so there goes the loyalty aspect.

I'll agree on US, but they are the outlier here. Can't expect every guild to be like that, especially since this server is mostly made up of younger people that don't value a guild tag.

It's odd how people defend Zanza and act as if them using allies is somehow legit. Not to mention the 5 staff member leaders and countless staff still loyal to it. Seems pretty easy to take towers when you have a never ending supply of quality people asking to join.

no, theyre not doing subs, theyre doing guild expansions through the allies system. the limited number of guild people, which is very small, makes this necessary. they dont have a war guild, and they dont recruit temps. i dont really have a problem with subs, or guild expansions, but i think it should be done in moderation. a guild and an expansion then 4 other allies. or even 3 guilds. the point of this post is to try and get guilds to recruit loyal members. this means making as many guilds as you need, and filling them with loyal members. fill one guild and still have people who want to join? fine get another. but most guilds dont have 100 loyal members. and therefore dont need that many guilds. make your guild a little exclusive when it begins to get popular, dont recruit temps, etc. you dont want to be recruiting random people, and you dont want to immediatly make 6 guilds with your friends. take it slow. advent really doesnt need the 7 guilds it has.

and @yephen: trial period is a much better way to test people. seems like its just an excuse to recruit temps.

Haha no offence, but you're really confusing.

what are you confused about?

A "guild expansion" is the same thing as a sub. Subs have nothing to do with recruiting temps.

Guild expansions are Allied guilds expanding on the current one to fit more members. They don't have a war guild. Sub guilds are guilds which hold members to be recruited to the regular guild, or war guild, when taking towers and such.

All of my active US members on Classic are young and they seem to hold some value.

That makes no sense. Of course those guilds have "war guilds". Whenever Ventrue/Charm take a tower or guild spar, I'm pretty sure they would recruit members from their allies to help out.

First it was "Any guild that uses allies as extra guild space is abusing", now it's "Well, it's okay to have subs as allies as long as they pretend they're just expansions". You can't just do a 180 like that and expect your argument to be taken seriously.

@Rufus, I'm just pointing out that most players on iPhone have no problem with guild hopping and disregarding loyalty.

Ch4rM has a war guild. It's called PeNd4nT - it operates in the same exact way Helsing did.

they dont really take towers in the first place. because the member limit in a guild is so small many times its necessary to expand. im making the argument that people dont value a guild. and the fact that people need to have so many branches in their guild, and recruit temps reflect this. im saying you should be selective. ive always been saying that. you shouldnt just recruit someone because they want to be in the guild, there should be some set requirements. this will lead to your member knowing eachother better, being more faithful because membership wasnt just given to them, and leaders wont have to kick people for every little thing.