That begs the question that who are the people that they already know? Are they just becoming friends with you because you are in this position? Even so, you can easily recruit the people you already know almost effortlessly due to the fact that they want to know you better because of your position. Thus, it is an advantage when taking this particular point of view of the OP into account.
Of course there are going to be some (may i note, pre-zanza) player guilds that can make it. That doesn't mean there isn't still a severe hardship when it comes to normal players just starting off with a new guild.

Nope, sorry, you're just jealous that other people are in admin guilds and you aren't. Sorry, but since most of the community revolves around these sacred guilds, this isn't going to change.

Another thing that should be noted is that Pulse and VenusGospel aren't run by admins, and each of those guilds has had an era of dominance. I don't know of any other guilds that have been in first place in the last year and a half?

Edit: Yeah, the bolded part was probably rude, and I can't judge you because I don't know you, so I apologize for that.

However this is simply the way Graal is. To remove all the admin guilds would essentially destroy the game and community, and hundreds of players would be extremely unhappy.

Edit 2: Just read through the thread. I have no sympathy for you. I take back the first edit.

You do have a point. I'm kind of debating between the two now. I haven't seen it as much of a problem where an admin guild towers over all the other guilds though so I think taking towers even as an admin is fine.

I dunno, they way I took it, the guy doesn't want staff to have guilds because it takes away time from working. You may be right Pimpsy, but thats just the way I took it.

Im just stating what i think is being discussed here. But on my own opnion I have to admit that even if the staff were never allowed to have guilds, this effect will still happen. Declaring people as popular and, "celebrities" is in human nature.

Yeah. Volunteer work pretty much is a result of this, either way the popularity factor cannot be avoided and should all around be ignored.

I do agree that the popularity argument is a bit valid, but a group of friends that love to take towers and the likes have the same chance of succeeding as an admin guild. Look at the first few guilds that got 1k hrs. Yes, they heavily noobcruited, but for the most part they were all friends. I think staff should be allowed to play the game like everyone else, because not being able to play the game you are working for is pointless.

Exactly. Awhile ago, I used to be against staff having guilds and taking towers and stuff like that because of their popularity, but after awhile I realized they are still people who play the game so they deserve the same privelages as other players. A way to avoid the popularity recruiting conflict is for that staff to have another account and have them take over the guild, but go under a different name and make sure no one knows it's them.

I was gettin around to it sooner or later

sure a non-recruiting staff member should be allowed to have a guild,
but staff members having a competing guild? way unfair. unfortunately you wont get alot of support here since over half the players on graalians are in a staff guild, that they would no doubt leave/ stop putting tag on as much if the guilds staff quit being staff.

if you look at most games youll see that staff on those games are not allowed to have a compete,

simply put its these two major things that make it unfair, if you have a staff member in the guild they will be quicker and more likely to respond to hackers or "laggers" or people that are harrassing them, and a staff member affiliated and that cares about the guild will be more likely to be harsher when punishing players that are breaking rules when it comes to the tower.

secondly, youll see another unfair practice almost all guilds use, noob recruiting, apprenticing, temping, its all the same, just recruiting anyone around to make sure youve always got enough members, with staff guilds people are more likely to want to temp, especially if they "promise" that players the help alot will become actual members


why are people so desperate to get into a guild? its all about the fame of the guild, how they seem to be "The Best Guild Ever", how exclusive it is, and how being in one can basically guarantee that youll be hired.

if staff want to have a guild, then they will have no problem giving up the right to have anything to do with staff hiring, if they really want a tower taking guild then they will quit being staff and play as a player, think about it, look at how they are treated by players that think they are gods, if they really cared about being able to play the game like a player they wouldnt have accepted the job.

they can still play the game, still be in non-tower taking guilds if they give up the right to helping with hiring staff.

of course, its not like they will stop having guilds or actually listen to this, because nobody is making them, and staff honestly dont give a **** about what players think or consider if what they are doing is fair.

the truth has been spoken...

I guess I made a mistake trying to prove the same point to a Zanza member, oh well

I'm not about to repeat every post I've made in this thread to you Higbey, but I know from experience that if you have a group of friends who are active enough, you can get a tower. Once you have tower time, people will want to join your guild. Once you have temps, you can get more tower time. You don't need to be in a staff guild to excel, as many guilds have proven. One of the reasons I joined a staff guild is because I'm not really into tower-taking, and most guilds that aren't tower- taking guilds die eventually, or the members abandon their tag for the tags of tower-taking guilds. Staff members are volunteers, so there is already less incentive to produce quality work than a big corporate game with adults who are paid working for them. Taking away the biggest part of the game (when they already lose the ability to show themselves publicly and talk normally) is not going to help them do their job happily and productively.

completely untrue statement

In my experiences they do

thats exactly why i think people shouldnt know there admins, people think theyll get free stuff

YES thats exactly what im trying to say (good explination)

brotherhood of ninjas, huryley knights (or whateva) they were guilds around for ages they werent doing great with forts, there leader became admins and now there doing heaps well

shouldnt players also be getting the same rights as admins

No sympathy for who?

LOL THIS.

Well said by pimpsy and higbey.

Last night, I'm pretty sure all but one fort was being held by an admin guild. That's dominating the normal players. That's unfair.

Oh yeah, BoN. That's proof. They were dead. And now they're back, because their leader is admin.

lol.

You mean complete and total anarchy? Sounds fun

The staff members in the guilds almost never help with the towers, it's just the players. And anyways, your profile picture suggests that you have ulterior motives for taking that side in the arguement.

Edit 2: Just read through the thread. I have no sympathy for you. I take back the first edit.[/QUOTE]

lmao how does talking in bold make u sound rude bnahahaha wtf looky me im being rude

dam your sympathy ment a hell of alot to me



lmao wtf

OMG FROGGY SHES ONTO U AND UR PLAN TO TURN ALL OF GRAAL INTO FROGS !!!!1!!!one!

That paragraph was directed at you

Well I didn't take 'that side in the argument' I didn't comment on that subject. Futhermore what's wrong with my picture? I've been waiting for a transfer for ages.

yes a picture of a rubber frog definitely suggests such motives xD

It is an evil looking frog :o

No, it's completely true. It was true for every guild I've been in (including the admin ones that stopped taking towers) and it's true for every noob guild.

Ch4rm and US. Your argument is invaild.

Well I've never been in either of them, now have I?

Yes, because they aren't permitted to use staff tools while taking towers and are encouraged to take forts on their iDevice account if they have one.

^ this, not encouraged or discouraged, but are allowed to.

That doesn't make sense. Care to try again???

Magic,Helsing all admin guilds need i say more

Magic and Helsing are two of the best guilds ever, thank you very much.

Are you seriously gp?

http://www.memesters.com/images/item...eLandscape.png