They're not sparrers with good movement, or hit calculation. They just know how to properly wallspar for 10 minutes straight. They're not landing hits on their screen (well this really depends on how bad the delay is).

doesn't explain how you claim to know that they wouldn't be good without having to spar with delay
no one can claim to know that about players who live overseas, that's ignorant

it's really weird how the delay argument always has a fallback, no matter what happens the players who don't delay "win"
team with a few players who delay wins: "they won because they delay" - Graal community
team without any players who delay wins: "this proves that you don't need delay to win" - Graal community

uhhh
what

judging by how comet force two idevice alumni members to go offense mode when he 2 vs 1 them and won, would be one sign. Either that or comet is super beast mode pro sparer.


i think the point that hes trying to make is that delay is a major factor for some players winning and its not like its wrong. Same concept when the pc arguments were going on.


We all know everyone can hop on their pc (nothing holding them back) and its not a players fault they live in certain areas of the world, but his point still applies to most people that depend on their delay for sparring purposes.


I think it gets brought up because players that fall under this category know they have a benefit/advantage, but try to act cocky as if it was their skill that got them the win.


Disclaimer: all my delayer buddies :love:, not demeaning your accomplishments just stating how the situation might be seen from a non-delayer perspective. i dont hate i appreciate :love:.

sure, a delayer could be good without their lag if they learn how to spar without it. if they didn't lag and played with their current strategies (run away for the whole spar and swing randomly and pray that it hits), then no. do this in a match between two people with decent connection and tell me how it works for you compared to how it works for someone with bad connection. let's not pretend delayers have any sparring skill at all with their current strategies here please.

sidenote: this doesn't apply to all delayers, some (probably only shiden, maybe shan) actually have the ability to leave their god, the wall, and spar offensively.

Yup

Watch crono laughing at forum when all of a sudden he gets Rufus, Stella, Yami, Dave mercy, deo, and NiTe to do US gst and everybody gets screwed the way Oprah would do it " Check under your seatsssssssss and find rekt! YOU GET REKT, YOU GET REKT.. YOU ALL GET REKT!."

Guys, chill. It's all cuz of that idiot, kuz is stealing all my gst champions.

I delay. No hiding that but you can't be as ignorant to say say without delay the result would be different. I only defensive spar because I have delay so I cannot do as fast movements as I would like so defensive is the smartest choice. I was an offensive sparrer on UN and Classic but I had to adapt to defense because of iClassic. So don't be so ignorant to say that if people didn't have delay they wouldn't win.

Whenever I face someone with way more delay than me it's actually easier, if you guys haven't countered delayers (especially you comyt) then you can't go and say you're one of the best. Any decent sparrer can win spars against non-delayers. But it takes a skilled one to defeat both delayers and non-delayers.

G0AT when you said that Comyt's right because of when he beat the alumni members in gst after they came offensive that doesn't exactly agree with the point. Whenever I go offensive I suck these days it's getting someone to go out their familiar style. Everyone has their own style of play Most delayers=Defensive, if you see any defensive sparrer play offensive the result would be the same it's just harder.

I know that I win some spars with my delay, but then I would prefer to spar without delay because it's more fun and competitive.

Honestly Kuz you're one of the only people who accept and admit to delaying and aren't cocky and try to act better than everyone that's why I am friends with and I do have a great amount of respect for you.

can't believe it's been like a year plus of people falling back on the same pre-GST excuses
must really never get old to some people - always need some sort of crutch or controversary, someone forced themselves to delay or someone "DDoSed" you
DA LAG SWITCHEZ AND DA VPN

mindblowing that some people can't just say "I lost" or "I'm not very good against that person" or "I don't understand how to spar that way" and move on

pathetic that the community has segregated itself and people are more interested in hiveminding and **********ing about delayers rather than beating them
yeah, we had delayers like Macen, Renee, and Meryl on PC Graal, and we didn't cry about them, we just adapted to the way they spar and we **** on them

the worst part is that I can't even commend the people who don't do that, because then it looks as if I'm jocking my own guild, since the truth is that some of the only people who you never see doing this are Junior, Fulgore, Vlad, Winter, Tucker, Daze, Dante, David, Aguzo, etc.
tell me if I'm lying

Remember that time the US PC team all came to the forums and made a bunch of excuses before the GST?
Remember that time my boi Ares got beat by a delayer and made an angsty status for two weeks?
me either, because good guilds and good sparrers don't do **** like that

Do you see why they say that, even you realize that. Im sure some of them would still win, but the question is would they win as much as they do with their delay. Take 7mood, he has a bad delay and I consider him a top sparer regardless of his delay, but he wouldnt win as much without that delay.

Let me give you an example of what I mean:
a couple gst's ago the guild "everyone"(pretty much alumni's current idevice team) faced Sage in the final I believe. 7mood was left against 3 sage members and won. i even posted it here to mess with Sage, but im not stupid enough to actually believe he won because of his skill, his delay was the major factor.

delayers go defensive because if they go offensive they will run into swords that are not even close to them in their screen. I bet that a lot of the times when a delayer gets a hit the other player is not even close to them. Ryo and Misaka were some of the early delayers that fought defensively, but now the delays are stronger and i would say because the devices are stronger.

i think comet is a bad example to use since he won the last gst with none of the "top sparers" on his team and he beat two of the teams with the strongest delays.


I dont think i said he was right, I was saying that was one way of making a determination. If you ask me(IMO), any top sparer should be able to play offense and defense and adapt to peoples style.




Note: im not taking sides, i just find it better if people understand both sides of the argument. the problems are usually caused by people disliking each other and making bias statements, so thats why i throw my 2 cents in certain threads.

Ill say it again, Im sure a lot of the people that delay would win without a delay, but i dont think they would be as "dominant". That was my whole argument with pc players, but it was misunderstood as, "I thought all of them sucked".


http://i58.tinypic.com/200dvd1.png

welcome to the club goat

idk why anyone would say i can't beat delayers. ask abood and sebastian what they do when they find themselves in the same room as me (run away to another room). maybe you see me losing spars to delayers since well, it isn't gst and doesn't matter. in gst i stole their strategy (run away and swing at the air) and beat them with it since i am smarter. in single spar, i just want to have fun so i use offense.

Really.. It's odd to you that people would go out of their way and go to extreme circumstances such as hacking, VPN manipulations and whatever DDoSing is, to win in this game? Are you completely crazy? Are you that big of a hypocrit? There are reasons people question your legitimacy. It's mind boggling that you can take yourself seriously every time you write something praising yourself.

Thallens Jail/Ban History:
Kea (Sat Mar 22 15:48:04 2008)
Warp to thallen, he added himself a hammer and he cheated exp in mining along with qplazm

March 18, 2008
Said to have been using speed hacks in the spar. He appeared to me as being quicker than all of the people he sparred, not by much, but still some. Enough to give him an unfair advantage. He's know to hack and cheat... obviously. Keep an eye on him.

Monday, February 18, 2008, 6:15 P.M. EST
Malinko has locally banned Thallen
Ban type: Hacking
Ban time: 10 years, 0 days and 0 hours
Reason: Time: Sun Feb 17 17:09:48 2008 - Player Thallen (ip 70.41.184.200) is using cheating tools: autoit v3. Banned for using autoit v3 logged in cheatwindows. User is NOT banned for any other reason besides the cheat window logged by the NPC-Server. User may play on other accounts if rules are not broken. For an un-ban of the account Thallen, please contact the GraalOnline Support Center at http://support.graalonline.com/.

Player Thallen (ip 70.41.184.200) is using
cheating tools: autoit v3 11:10

Not ever to be unbanned, under ANY
circumstance, he's had like 12 'permanent' bans
already, several for hacking and several others
for harassment. DO NOT unban him.
-NaS

8/9/07 3:27PM
Player Thallen (ip 75.105.100.79) is using
cheating tools: Cheat Engine 5.3
Player Thallen (ip 75.105.100.79) is using
cheating tools: Cheat Engine 5.3
Jailed for life
-derek

There's so much more, I just don't really feel like going through it all. Your nick and your guild should have asterisks all around them. Sarah pmed me randomly with "Thallen doesn't cheat anymore". Not sure why she felt the need to pm me this but you've been a hacker your whole life, even your guild members who didn't play with you on Client graal know your history as a known hacker.

"Hack all night" good decision removing that from youtube.

i love this thread

Not as much as Demrow loves Thallen

Not as much a Colin loves Demrow

Thallen, take all delay members from alumni ( not naming people ) and you won't een stand a chance in winning gst ... You can argue all you want but it's honestly the ultimate truth .

In other words, anyone foreign isn't allowed to participate?

Also, why do you all complain that the server is so bad and laggy, when sparring in this lag obviously gives you such a huge advantage (aka how delayers have to spar all the time)

Go Raindrop!

I have about half of the people on this page on my ignored list so I can't really see the full conversation, but look what becomes of every spar thread because you guys are so obsessive and weird about delayers
it's like you can't handle it when a sparrer who is better than you refuses to jump on the "let's hate every international player because we are inconvenienced by the way that they spar" train

it's sad for me to see because the sparring community could be so much more competitive, active, and enjoyable, but instead you would rather shape it so that it's a middle school girl's bathroom where it's nothing but gossip, drama, and chat
it's pretty pathetic and it's why you almost never see me spar anymore, I don't even want to be associated with that

something even weirder: when you only support someone when they are winning gst for your guild.

let's go ahead and compare thallen's statements on two players from different generations who sparred basically the same way.

thallen on sarah: "best guildsparrer"

now let's take a trip back through time to see how he felt about someone very similar who wasn't on his side.

thallen on izumi/yui: http://www.graalians.com/forums/show...4&postcount=74

"i don't even consider defensive sparrers (like Yui) in a conversation like this"

so fake.
and what old man is always doing on these forums: gossip, drama, and chat.

now old man, can we stop defending your lag army of people who "shouldn't even be considered in a conversation like this" or nah?

seems someone is being a major hypocrite talking about a "let's hate every international player because we are inconvenienced by the way they spar" train when they were on it first.

Thallen the hypocrit.

Maybe if have the "GFX Admins" change the graphics of the GST platform, then maybe it'd be more interesting. Oh yeah, also. If the "GFX Admins" actually did their job more completely, then no one would have an issues with the "GST" hats.

Good point, but shut the f*uck up. You and your Dad should leave things at home.

Allow me to clarify something, unless we're told to do something or it is set as an assignment then we won't do it, we don't decide if graphics need to be updated or revamped, thats a higher-up's job.

As for the GST hats, thats purely subjective. Some would agree, some would disagree, and we can't please everyone, and for that I apologise.

FF9 was a great ****ing game :').

You better believe it was

There are too many of you guys with low leveled skill now, it's impossible to change anything. I'm very certain these "higher ups" probably don't exist, because for the last years it's been nothing but trash, excuses, ect.

holy burn

get rekt son

reminds me of this entire thread and current spar community

That was a pretty violent checkmate, especially when he cant accuse you of being stupid or not being able to defeat delayers.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/checkmate.jpg

Im not a freaking groupie :'(:'(:'(
interested to see the rebuttal
im not an instigator ;p

I will stir this back on topic with an updated prediction.

Mixed in order:

1st=SLX
2nd=Alumni
3rd=Apostle
4th=Memory (After the addition of some AGE members)
5th=SNC

Underdogs=Hazard :)

iDevice=

1st=Alumni
2nd=Blitz
3rd=Memory
4th=5pa4
5th=Apostle
6th=Hazard

Underdogs=Raindrop

we don't have a team right now, because many members of the guild (many of whom the crybabies in this thread are complaining about) are doing IRL things this weekend, which is completely acceptable and fine by me

if I feel like recruiting 1 or 2 temporary people to fill spots then I might

Just found out Abood won't be here. Such a shame he was always a stand out guy at GST. I hope him well in his future, delay or not he is still 1 of the best iDevice sparrers on this game.

Prime, Domi, Thrash, Eion Best iDevice Sparrers. Hands Down

Abood,Sarah,Comyt,Prime,Yurhomi Best iDevice sparrers :)

Thrash is number 1 hands down.

Kevin and Sarah still best idev I don't get it

I think that mother might claim there title once again. They haven't been active GST sparers in awhile. It's time! But mother won't be at it's best since mk and Dante are with alumni to reclaim there title. Yet 5pa4 will be in trouble for idevice since memory is basically nessa but better. So this gst will be interesting! I wonder if anyone is gonna record it?

This guy usually records the GST's.

https://m.youtube.com/user/ZetecticProduction

How I imagine some of you spar after reading your replies

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoYvvDrsWms

i dunno why the gst is still being hyped

server is laggy and the hat rewards are ugly

Because GST isn't about the hats and the people who complain over lag most likely do really bad in GST :love:

its all about the "fun", no?

For some guilds it's for the fun and some do it for the competitive aspect, personally I don't care about winning or making it that far so I find fun in it by joining a team of new players so they can experience it, they don't care about the hats or losing (although most do want the item or something)


Then there is some guilds who see this as a chance to show that their guild is more out standing than others, which is fun as well.

On-Topic: I heard Mother was participating so I think they might take a title or come close to it possibly

lol you make it sound like the poor guy died. i doubt hes taking it that hard.



i think the ones that complain the most are the teams that end up from 4-16.



such lies, every previous GST winner entered the tournament for the sole purpose of having fun. How dare you insinuate otherwise. None of these former GST champions assembled for the purpose of winning a hat and statue, it's always been about having fun.

I actually did it for my dog when I won. Proven wrong.

Memory for iDevice GST.
Alumni for Mixed since they're the hardest PC team to vs at guild spar. :P

your dog must be proud of you, +1

No lie he was actually going into surgery the next day so I thank you! Don't worry all you concerned graalians he's fine now

I'm going to solo the GST.