Welcome back to America, Enjoy!

You are an idiot if you can't see why someone would be more upset over an ISIL/ISIS flag than a confederate flag. ISIS is a modern day organization that has executed US citizens. The Confederacy existed in the 1860s and its legacy was crushed after the civil rights movement. So if it is questionable to you as why someone born after the year 1990 would be more aggravated by ISIS flag than a Confederate flag then you probably aren't too sharp.

Because some people don't support the US.

They're both ****.

Yeah, that's what I thought bro. Save your "freedom to have any flag" bull**** for someone else.

You're an idiot.

Care to elaborate?

Many people down in the south have heritage that died in the war. I think most people forget that while the USA is one individual country, it is composed of many different territories, regions, states, cultures, and heritages.

A very small percentage of Americans would welcome slavery these days. But the Confederate flag is embedded in our history and not everybody views it as a racist symbol. Regardless if it is or not- the flag itself is meer perspective. It has racist roots but so does the American flag- waving over US armies that massacred native americans. Does that mean that the US flag is racist?

Well I don't find it really racist. The world hates ISIS/ISIL because they are slaughtering innocent people/civilians and initiating fear and terror. They already made it clear they want to kill all Americans. The flag is plain and simple unacceptable to be accepted in the US for a great reason, But constitutionally (where the confederate flag comes in) it is somewhat protected.

I hate ISIS, and as infantry I hope I get lucky enough to put some of them down in the next couple years.

You're argument is pointless. There is a sea of difference between ISIS and the Confederacy. Trying to bring something as evil as ISIS to assist your argument is ridiculous.

This is exactly why there are a lot of people who do not like the USMC. Regardless of the cause, anyone who has so little value for human life is a sack of ****.

They behead babies, are they really human?

Yes they are; their actions are obviously inhumane and atrocious, but I fail to see how hoping you get a chance to kill people is humane either. The middle east is a ****ed up place right now, and a lot of the terrorists that are out there are people whose choices were to support ISIS or die.

People despise the Marines and most love em'. Regardless, we are there to protect the right for them to do so.

ISIS brings terror wherever they go. I hear damn near every new story that comes out. I want to go out there out of anger and sense of duty, not bloodlust.

I get what you are saying. I know its a lose-lose scenario really. But isn't okay to let them keep growing, and just because they are forced to kill people it doesn't make it okay.

I agree completely with you, ISIS is something that needs to be removed from the world, and I myself have a lot of respect for the US Armed Forces. But "I hope I get lucky enough to put some of them down in the next couple years." is not okay.

Your argument is pointless because you claim people should be free to express themselves by flying whatever flag they want yet clearly contradict yourself.

I have no sympathy for anything that happens to anyone who supports ISIS. I feel like everyone has a mental line that, once crossed by someone, completely dehumanizes the person. It's almost as if they revoke the right to be treated under the protection of laws.

So this thread went from Apple and a flag to terrorism and ISIS. God bless Graalians.

I encourage everyone to watch this video.
http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/4yoaqb/flagdance

Mostly about flags though so...

why would they ban the amerrycan flag?

This is a wall of text but I was addressing multiple people. Either way, I feel like I have a lot to say.
It seems utterly obvious that you will go to farther than normal lengths to try to argue any point against me that you feel you can. I encourage debate, but you put yourself in a silly and incomparable position- and your grudge against me for some reason takes away from the normal ability to converse with actual facts.

They are two different situations that cannot be compared, I stand behind everything American, so that is what I am relaying as acceptable. While we have a freedom of expression, supporting a federally declared enemy flag (in a way that is supporting an enemy) can and has been declared treason and that can mean a death sentence.


Now you can bet your ass that the same thing was in effect during the civil war. People of the Union would be considered traitors to the union if they sported the Confederate flag. The Confederacy was a declared enemy of the state. That is war, and war will bend constitutional rights.

That said, we are not at war with the Confederacy of 1861. Wearing a Confederate flag does not imply that person is at war with the US. It has been a regional symbol and a symbol of Southern heritage. Additionally, it has also been a symbol of racism. It really depends on the person and how cool they are.

With everything said, it is dangerous and an immediate threat to the United States to wear the ISIS flag during this time of war. There are things that bend our constitutional rights and usually those things involve danger and war. They are there for good measures as I just proved.

If the Confederate flag can be proved as an act of rebellion, it could be ruled by the Supreme Court to be threatening and it would be outlawed. The thing is, that is not going to happen despite how many people in the north want it to happen.

While there are laws that protect against hate crime and public discrimination (especially in the workforce), there is no law to prevent someone from expressing that they do not like black people. What reason could the courts have to outlaw the Confederate flag, in that regard? Even if they can prove it represents a racist history, racism itself is not illegal. It would have to be a legitimate threat. In order for that they would have to tie it into a group or movement, most likely the church burnings (hate crimes). The percentage of people who use the flag and engage in this activity is incredibly low.

That is the difference between being able to represent a controversial flag under the Constitutional right, freedom of expression and speech, and supporting a flag of an officially declared enemy/hostile group.


I respect your philosophy and I understand why people feel this way. If everyone in the world feels that way humanity could have no bounds. But I feel more blunt about the matter. If people are out there with the moral consciousness to torture innocents (nonetheless women and children... and civilians) and execute them, bring them into slavery, and declare other cultures and beliefs as evil and "must be destroyed"...

Well I want to be the one the hunt them down. I don't want to be on the sidelines watching the news saying "Oh those poor people! ISIS is so evil. I hope something happens about this.". I want to be there to get rid of it.
ISIS is cancer to the Earth. It isn't just a country at war with another country, ISIS has declared war on the world rejecting reason and tossing aside compassion and cannot even work together with any other group on the Earth. They lack any ability to cooperate even with OTHER terror groups. They have no place, and I have no doubts about what needs to happen to them.

I do sympathize the young souls who have been forced into ISIS and brainwashed. But they made up their minds despite it not being a fair choice, and they are too much of a liability to the world. They haven't showed the world mercy, and showing mercy back would be unfair to all those who have been slaughtered.

Sorry for my long post, I enjoy hearing what other kids my age think about this from different parts of the world and lifestyles. I spend most of my social time these days around Marines, Marine Poolees, and Southern Republicans. It obviously effects my viewpoint when compared to others, I keep an open eye and envy some philosophies but I still believe in the to-the-point and firm methods I have grown up with.

Yeah, no...the last time anyone was convincted of treason in the US was in 1949 for collaborating with the Third Reich. You're not going to be convicted for treason for flying the flag. Your attempt to quote something official completely flopped as well because "adhering to their enemy" literally has nothing to do with flags.

My point is that I've seen a lot of people like you claim to respect freedom of expression regarding the confederate flag yet most of you are also the type that would question the presence of things like:

http://www.warstore.co.uk/ekmps/shop...lag-1493-p.jpg

All these organizations are responsible for some of the worst crimes against humanity, why even bother comparing them?

Seriously, the amount of hypocrisy in this thread is reaching embarrassing levels.

omg i support Isis and abortions and Nazi's and the Conferdate Flag im cool
fuck all of you

Subscribed to this thread <3

Yea dude, Nazi flags are great, everyone has the right to own one obvss. How would it be free speech if I can't own a Nazi flag and fly it over my home, car, and workplace. Its like oppression to not be allowed to have a Nazi flag, they have nothing to do with the holocaust or Germany attempting to become a world wide empire; its just a symbol of how Germany brought itself up from nothing after the first world war.

So many historians in the Graalian community :0

I don't understand how people are missing my actual point.

Sounds like USA to me.

No one is going to argue with you about being a hypocrite, because everyone knows they are.

Is there any other way to defend against terrorism besides air striking civilian populated areas? /s

If we ignore that it isn't any defend and forget the fact that some people are bloody ******ed criminals, let's say no.

wat

Those actions taken by the US are anything but "defense". And l called them ******ed criminal people.

War involves the lives of innocent civilians whether we like it or not.

The fact that this thread went from a debate regarding big companies taking symbolic speech into their own hands to the shortcomings of the U.S. military is absolutely hilarious.

You are so ignorant.

1. They are right across the Atlantic Ocean from the US. It's not like we have the largest Naval and Airforce in the world, so if they wanted, they could easily invade the US.

2. The enemy is uneducated religious fanatics living in mud huts while evading their own government, they definitely have WMDs and are going to use them at any moment.

3. The entire world is the United States of America, so it is the US's responsibility to take care of this.

How someone can honestly say that invading foreign countries and carpet bombing impoverished terrorists living around civilians is not National Defense is beyond me.

Who the hell really wants to talk about Apple banning a flag? It's more interesting to talk about fighting terrorism.

Aight. Take a look at
This



Let's get into those criminals now. There are way too much to talk about but let's have an example: George W Bush Jr:

1st: "his" war against Iraq killed about 1 million people. How many of those were "terrorists"? I believe.. around.. 1%?

2nd: The war lead into conflicts between Sunnitesand Shiites, having Bush agitating. The religious balance within the middle East was destroyed and lead into a lot of civil wars and "religious" wars (MIND: terror does not know any religion.).

3rd: Because of the divestiture of Iraq (because of Bush, again) the military balance was heavily damaged, if not destroyed. They created chaos which is the reason the arabic world is near an ending right now.

4th: Bush invented the best "terror breeding program" using his stupid and non-logical bomb wars. Before his "anti terror wars" there was a record of 1000 internation terrorists, nowadays there is a record of 100.000 and more.

5th: One of Bush's terror breeding program is the IS. The IS was made after the US-American soldiers attacked and invaded Iraq by Al Zarkawi. The IS is an answer/respond to the Iraq-war. Despite it being a cruel, wrong, criminal and inhuman respond because killing poor civilians is NEVER to be justified. But whoever opens the gates to hell on earth shouldn't wonder if they meet satanic, diabolic gestalts.

I can get more arguements but I think this point should be clear now.

The bombs are killing a lot of people who have nothing to do with any government of any Arabic state, nothing to do with any terrorists nor any of that absurd kind. The Pakistani lawyer S. Akbar has stated solid evidence that 90% of drone-victims are innocent people (since January 2015). And do you know how these people are called? "Collateral damage". Ago a while, Obama had to apologize because one American and Italian hostage were killed by a drone, yet he doesn't have to apologize when there is over thousand of Afghan and Pakistani people dying because of drones? I don't think that looks "fair" aswell. Is western people blood more worth, is character a matter of luck?
The police informer of the US are often having personal issues with people they report and the drones/signature strikes report a lot of attitudes as something dangerous, leading into innocent people being killed aswell. In 24.10.2012, north-Waziristan, the 67 years old lady Momina Bibi was killed while harvesting her vegetables. The drone reported her for burying explosive charges and killed her. Of course this is only one example, but I can't name the other 1000+ examples. Drones are a crime, whatever their use is, innocent people are the ones suffering the most of thems. Saying that, people who order those drones are criminals being (another reason Germany and German people voted NO when they were asked about the usage of drones).

You don't fight terrorism by killing people, especially not innocent people. While I do get the fact that those terrorists have to be stopped and killed if needed, this is nothing but the wrong way to do so. This is leading into more terrorism which is the opposite of what people claim.

I can go on and offer what other ways there are but at this point I am way too tired. I'm no hater of the United States, in fact I think it's a great country with great people. But the politics and politicans of that country are one of the worst ever seen. The only reason we don't go full spazzed metatron **** on them is because they're the superior country. What do you think if USA would be threated the same way Russia is today, or any other Arabic state? I'm not ignorant at all, but those facts are pretty clear and obvious. I didn't backup everything I've typed with evidence because it would take me too much of time but I believe I stated enough evidence to underline my expression. The States aren't in need to take care of it because "they're the world" but because they're the cause of this happening. There are plenty ways to take care of this, ways who don't lead into innocent people being killed. And I doubt the IS could easily invade the US. Have you seen what weapons most of the IS-fighters have? It's easy to talk about it if you haven't experienced it yourself, sadly.

I hope this wall of text doesn't have too much mistakes, but o well.

I almost want to read this text wall and have an actual discussion with you because I feel bad about making you type that out for nothing. I figured your OP was too obviously troll bait to be a serious post.

The first one was a bait, yea. But I realized this shouldn't be anything to troll about. I mean, innocent people are dying. I grew up in war, lost a lot of family and my parents and family still have mental issues because of that. If I would be trolling about it I'd be kinda hypocritical now, I guess. The long wall of text however was serious.

If you want to have a discussion we can do that aswell, I'm always happy to be proven wrong! =]

lul glazey lulll

I wanted to troll Kendama a bit to be fair, regardless of my opinion being no different.

tl;dr on text wall? you might want to post it in a new thread though because i have a feeling the mods will descend upon this thread soon.

** I don't want to read the text wall so I have no idea what your opinion even is, and I most likely agree with it, the War on Terror is pretty black and white

Errr.. TL;DR: USA failed and is part of the reason why there is a lot of terrorism now, their ways were causing more harm than good.
I'm not gonna open a new thread because **** Talon and **** Imprint

I don't get it?

The USA is not "the reason there is a lot of terrorism now". The USA has obliterated terrorist groups yet they keep coming back under different leaderships and radical "ideas".

Military operations in unstable regions have been FAR from perfect and have inflicted civilian casualties and invoked hatred from certain regions. But, the USA is not the "reason" terrorism exists now. Terrorists cause terror, the United States has tried it's best with many successes and failures.

You have no idea where the world would be if the United States has not stepped in to stop terrorist efforts, and don't act like you do. Give me a plausible scenario in which terrorism would be less of a threat if we did not get involved.

Al-Queda reasoning with a bunch of Christian nations? ISIS choosing to stop expanding and beheading non-believers? The Taliban not trying to overtake Afghanistan and turning it into a dangerous radical theocracy nightmare?

I understand someone criticizing the way the US military has gone about some of these operations. Throw some valid (and even I could find a ton) mistakes the US has made or point to certain instances in which we invoked them to respond with terrorism. You could disagree with these wars completely and you would still have a large backbone in your footsteps.

But if you are going to say that we are (part) of the reason terror exists, and that we have not stopped several dangerous rising groups, i want to see some damn facts.

Or are you just trolling me? I do sometimes forget I share these forums with middle schoolers who like to throw off serious topics because they are neglected in real life and need to get attention somehow.

Read my wall of text you pleb.

Instead of just talking **** can you guys provide valid ideas on how America can improve its fight against terrorism?

All I see here is "Wahhh, America isn't doing a good job, wahhh."

Being productive is one thing, but the effectiveness of that productivity is something else entirely.

Ironically, the US hasn't been too productive lately in the fight against ISIS as far as I know.

saw ****ing nothing.

Ehhh, we kinda create them when it suits us.

We made the region unstable though.

You have no idea where the world be if Hitler won WW2. If scenarios are **** for arguments.

Two of the most known terror organizations, al-qaeda and ISIS were results of our actions. ****, with what Bush/Cheney has done down in G-Bay, we kinda terrorists ourselves.

A lot of the "conspiracy theories" about the US's 'secret' involvement in propping dictators and basically taking a **** on various peoples wound up being true. Holding modern Americans responsible for it is kind of a **** move though, this **** happened almost half a century ago.

Superpowers throughout the history of civilization influence weaker ones and pull strings. It's what they do. Better it be the US than Russia or China imo.

1. Long time peace and security conference of the Muslim states to the settlement of her interstate conflicts (Middle-East-KSZE). Also between Sunni and Shiite countries. Some governments of the Middle East are hard jointly guilty in the chaos of the region and their countries. For many, social justice is a foreign word.

2. removal of all Western military bases in the Muslim world. They are remnants of colonialism humiliating, no one needs to die. Also we have no military bases in China. Ami go home!

2. Dismantling of all western military bases in the Muslim world. They are mortifying oddments of the colonialism which nobody needs/wants. Noone haves military bases in China. As in, yank go home!

3. Renunciation of wars of the west against the Muslim world. The western wars let the number of the international terrorists since 9/11 of 1000 on more than 100,000 explode. The Middle East sinks into terrorism. We (not pointing USA only now but countires who shut their mouth and just tolerated and supported this) have bred terrorism itself.

4. Strict non-intervention in the internal affairs of other countries (--> Kant). This is also valid for Saudi Arabia and Iran. The Muslim countries must solve her conflicts themselves. Even the IS conflict.

5. The west should treat the Muslim world as generously and fairly like Israel.

6. Termination of racist and Religiosen discrimination of Muslims in the countries of the Western world. Punishment of insulting religions and Religiosen groups (sedition) - expressly Promoted As explained in paragraphs 166 and 130 of the German Criminal Code. Our judges have no right to certain laws and regulations simply do not apply. This is criminal (!) Broke the law.

6. Ending of the racist and religious discrimination of the Muslims in the countries of the western world. Punishment of the insults of religions and religious groups (incitement of the people) - how in the section 166 and 130 of the German Criminal Code expressly demanded. Judges do not have the right not to apply certain sections simply. This is a punishable (!) legal declension. You can take this point into your own law since I have no clue about any but German law.

7. combat all forms of terrorism in the world - whether left-wing extremism, right-wing extremist separatist, religious or otherwise motivated - with the classic police means of fighting terrorism (!): Infiltration, surveillance, money, special forces, etc. but not with clever terrorist breeding program War ,

7. Fight of all kinds of the terrorism of the world - all the same whether left extremist, of the extreme right separatist, religiously or in any way motivates - with the classical police (!) means of the anti-terror fight: Infiltration, supervision, money, special commands etc. However, not with the failed terror breeding program war.

The western one and the Muslim world need a new thinking. In the justice and education are in the foreground and not armoured deliveries and oil contracts. Offensive warfares and terrorism are a crime compared with the humanity.

This applies to more than only one side, only to the States. But then again, all countries have to stick together otherwise it won't be that easy and any effective.
Don't mind the bad English.

Walls of text are murder so I'll try to break this down the best I can.

I'm no history expert but I'm sure something like this was arranged some time ago. Of course, whether or not it was successful is kinda obvious at this point considering the nations continue to attack each other.

Ok, see this is where I have problems seeing your logic. Why the actual **** would the US need military bases in China? China is a modern nation with a powerful military to defend itself. Please compare China to the Middle East then come back to say this to me.

Oil imports. Nuff said.

The oil is a part of our business and when people come knocking at our business, things are going to get ugly.

Doing that.

Freedom of speech and expression over here in the US.

Sure, 98% of most Americans may not agree with racist groups, but hypocrisy is the way these things go. Hell, way to tie back to the main topic. GG.

Ok, what?

So this doesn't count as combating terrorism when terrorism is being used in these situations?

Look, I know you mean well and really don't like the way things are going in the world but sometimes bad **** happens.

We do what we gotta do, even if it means unintentionally or intentionally doing some ugly stuff.

Nothing ever really ends in sunshine and rainbows so we make do with what we have.

But hey, if you're having a bad day, listen to this:

As long as the US is the one doing most of the fighting, the US is the one that's gonna get the most **** from people.

I think one thing people fail to realize is that the confederate flag has also become a symbol of southern pride(not saying is dumb/smart/right/wrong). I think this is why a lot of people are proud of it and not necessarily their ancestors history(only problem is that they picked a symbol that is connected with a lot of negativity).




Wait, do you actually think the US sets shops around the world because they care about the countries?


The US does a lot of ****ty stuff around the world, but without it the world would be much worse. Obviously they get involved because of personal interest, so their actions get diminished/criticized.

Hell yeah, did you not see my little post about oil?

Yeah we care about China immensely but they're not a country that's constantly being invaded by neighboring countries or anything like that.

Even if they did get invaded or something, they've got a massive army to deal with that for us.

This is probably the best way to put it.