This. You have as much time as you like to develop an argument and research on a forum. But its absolutely completely different while talking. Forum arguments lead to endless debates because both sides can make perfect arguments by thinking of a counter post for 30 minutes, whereas in an actual debate you have to come up with it instantly.

I dare not say xD
my mind doesnt work like yours XD
or anyone elses

Guild Pic. :-D

that and somthing else many other thing that stand for gp ran thru my mind like a mcdonald drive thru

iClassic is trash but Graal can't be Graal without a decent playercount. About 30-40 is nice, anything above is a luxery.

Thor's remake of Classic isn't anywhere near complete but I'm not a fan of it. I wish Stefan would have used Dusty's pre-iClassic material.

*blah blah blah Unholy Nation blah blah blah Thor blah blah blah iClassic Sucks blah blah Blah!*

Guys.. Just stop it and please just shut up for what im to say:
I don't care if Thor has any attitude towards iClassic or if theres iEra players flaming iClassic forums. Why does everyone have to place all their hatred on iClassic? Because it doesn't have new weapons or because of Gralat-related issues? Here we go...

Before iClassic changed to what it is, we were only dazzled by old times because like other games, we were adapting to iClassic's gameplay and feel. Its like fireworks. You get damn excited the first time you lit a firework and you want to do it again. Then you get bored of it after a couple of times and want to try some other new firework.

after iClassic, thing got out of hand. It was all community based content. From hats to heads to bodies to dating and so forth and so forth.. So pretty much all the feel and gameplay you were thrilled by before is completely gone. You're completely clueless and you don't want to "pretend to be a schoolboy and date complete random schoolgirls who are actually strangers". Then there was the towers (which was still from old times) and the CTF. This is when players went "Now this is more like it!"

Then you got more content flying towards you... Mostly graphics-wise so it felt completely pointless... Then came the holiday hat/body hunting, the quests, the horses, the farming, the baddy killing, and so forth and so forth. Why do you think people prefer this way more over all this graphics content? Because its the same feeling and same gameplay from before. Even new players might do the same. Who knows..

But like fireworks, these get sometimes boring after awhile. Luckily, the quest with the shovel kept them busy on the holidays. But what about the future content? More quests? More sword-fight like activities/events? Mini-games? Idk..

This is just like Castlevania. Play Castlevania 1 then play Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow. People can easily say that Dawn of Sorrow is better because of the graphics and how it really compliments the game itself. The gameplay in general wasn't that good compared to the original Castlevania, where it had 8 bit graphics but satisfying/challenging gameplay.

The Graal Comparison is the Graphics to the adaptive gameplay. You got the adaptive gameplay but the game will look awful without good graphics. Now you got good graphics to compliment the game but isn't there anything else that can keep the player busy?

Every Graal Player is looking at the graphics and the uploads.. No one is looking at the Sword or the Bow. They feel completely optional to most Graal Players. This game may be all social but people are trying to say "Hey... What the hell happened to the old Graal? I kept using the sword and the arrow but all the new updates are about hats. What am i supposed to used this sword for? I played every war-based event and player-killing but theres nothing else to do with this sword. When am i gonna use the sword? The bow? The bombs are nothing but for guild corner trapping...

Yea i know... Gotta shut my mouth up... But hey..

In short words (Im sure everyones gonna skip to this part. But thank you for those that read the long descriptive paragraphs): Where was the old Sword-Fighting and player hunting gameplay/feel we adapted to in the old days? Why are players clenching on the graphics more than the gameplay? Graphics are sprites and are supposed to compliment/see how the game works... But shouldn't the Gameplay matter more?

This is why people prefer iEra and Whatever Unholy Nation blah blah blah... Because iEra tries to balance both at the same time and it works. iClassic is more likely Graphics-wise and thats the huge problem. It leaves the Gameplay/Feel of the game less of what it was supposed to be in the first place and more of a Social Dating Simulator with complimenting graphics..

This is just my opinion... So speak sh*t back to me if you want to..

So amazed this thread has gone this long without Nick making a quick "trolling" post and locking the thread so he gets the last word.

Hey everybody... umad?

Trolol...

Nah.

It actually sounds like uMad NYN because you just locked the topic without a second thought, acting like a lil 13 year old... No offence dude...

You don't have to butt into this if you don't want to. Other admins/mods can discuss it y'know. We're just sharing our thoughts honestly like you guys wanted us to in the first place :)

Don't be mad. Be chill

1) read what higbey posted... Tis why nick did it.
2) i agree. It is a public forum after all.

Your post is offensive to 13 year olds everywhere.

Quit your crap you are NOT funny. Is this an example of the adults of today? Trolls roaming the internet attempting to outsmart teens and children?!

and Your post doesn't got anything to do with what we were previously discussing. Its funny what you did with the whole uMad thing but please... Stay on topic with what we were discussing.. Or just stay out of it... We're not here to piss you off.. We're just discussing honestly... Man to man..

actually, Third option: You can watch the first post video and laugh a couple of times

awwwh :( I can't take away what made NYN.. NYN!
-friend hug-
Me sowwie. I take back what i say. You can trololol.. Please do..

are you angry cause your off your medication? im sorry maybe you should go ask your doctor for more cause you get cranky when you dont got your meds

Um.. You did read that i apologized and im sorry for what i said... Right? or did you ignore that entire post you just quoted now?

There is no such thing as winning an "argument" on a message board because people like you change the subject and ignore reason. Ironic, though, because you're still arguing.

If you haven't heard there's lots of, I shouldn't say 'gossip' about how you are not a good staff member on iClassic and are the biggest cause of the server's corruption. Having an opinion does not count as 'gossip', nor does sharing your opinion with others.

You only start arguments to make people angry? How many people have you called immature?

I don't think inviting Thor to your radio show is a good idea, and I think it's stupid if he were to accept it. Basically he'd be talking to an entire server that's biased against him and, no matter what he said, everybody would still find a reason to dislike him. Of course, it would be great for you to talk to him, but certainly not publicly.

You already said that, but then you created a post that continued to argue. You're contradicting yourself. Basically you said, "Here's my side of the story, but you are not welcome to respond." You're not going to get the last word on this.

Now you're just trolling this thread. Again, you were calling other people immature?

You argue when it suits you, and when it doesn't suit you, you default to "I'm better than that."

stop spazzing on nick guys. nick is really cool and just trying to add a little bit of humor to this post- which has gone from me showing you guys something funny to thor criticizing iclassic to an argument >.< seriously guys, dont be sour.

EVERYONE STFU!
Listen, i know NYN likes to joke around sometimes... and i know you guys find it disrespectful... some of the time i do but thats why hes such a good admin...

Who would take the time out of their job to come here and have a good time?
Nick's like the admin everybody wanted. Ellybelly... Sure hes cool but he doesn't take much of his time.. azrael is awesome but sometimes hes too informative... Nick can hold his job up while having a good time of his life... and i don't care what people are going to say... Im sorry for what i said to Nick.. Please guys... Don't hate on Nick... Hes having fun with you guys.. and i don't see admins doing that... Just being douches and worrying about the god damn game...

Please... all those who just went against or insulted Nick... Please apologize... I know its not funny to you but to him, its fun... and can't a guy have some fun and let others laugh while hes enjoying it?

There is a fine line between being humorous and belittling someone. He is pretty close to that line most of the time when he responds to someone:unsure:

If you don't agree with what's being said you're welcome not to post here.

How? That doesn't make sense.

It's not that he's having fun with us, it's that he's being completely ridiculous and acting stupidly in a thread with a legitimate argument going on. Other people have done pretty much the same thing and you've slammed them.

And we're all allowed to worry about the game.

No? I'm allowed to have a different opinion than him?

i created this thread matt :p

but the thing is he's not funny, and there is such a thing as being a funny troll but NYN's not one of them.
And also his trolling crap is pretty poor behavior for a staff member (its ironic because he made a long ass post on facebook about how you're suppose to conduct yourself if you ever wanna get noticed for a staff spot, and here he is acting like an idiot) and im sure that's where a majority of the hate and disrespect stems from towards the staff.

also MattKan ftw

alright i know ive come on a little hard in the past few days, so i feel like o owe a series of apologies, mostly to people on this thread, but some to people on a thread which nyn just deleted.

first, and foremost, azrael.
i came into the topic with little knowledge. and i still believe that classic pc is better than classic iphone because i love quests. but anyway, yeah i definitly should have looked around before i posted. but iclassic is definitly getting better. when i saw the free shovel which let me use snowballs i was in shock and awe. SHOCK AND AWE! this completly change the way to pk! this added a while new aspect to the game! for free! im just gonna be sad when all the snow goes away and i cant use them anymore. can we have mud balls XD? and the quests you make are perfect for the large player count, and community. classic pc probably wont have 1000 players all trying to do a quest at one time and youve handled it very well. ever since youve first started youve been one of my most respected admins. lol i remember your first day you were dragging people up cliffs and stuff. and you once dragged me over to sample some of your work, since people used to LAT in game. where the grotto now i i believe stating whoever LATed it was an idiot, which i had no idea what i meant at the time. and the fact you do so much work for the game, and still connect with the community is great. im sorry for speaking so rashly. you obviously have much more experience in this area than i do.

to Thor:
yeah, sorry i may have unknowingly stated that iclassic is all your stuff. i guess i should have worded it differently lol. sorry for that, as i kind of implied that you were the one and only person responsible to classic pc, and putting words in your mouth. ill be visiting your server very soon. cant wait to see what new quests you have in store for me. everyone should go check out this mans server his quests are soooo much fun. and some of the items hes made, like beer and the high five, people would pay tens of thousands of gralats for in iclassic lol.

to yephenpeace if he reads this:
im sorry for coming on so strong about my idea in the "thats just stupid" post. in fact i should be apologizing to everyone, since well i gave everyone a lot of attitude in that post. sorry, i guess you guys should know this, and i understand if all o you unfriend me and completely cut me out after hearing this but, im from new jersey. we fight a lot here. yell, come on very strong, get spray tans, fist pump, GTL, then fight some more. i once made a kid cry since he was trying to make the argument that obama was from kenya and i kept yelling at him for being racist...its something i need to work on lol. ill try to be more respectful to everyone after this.

to NYN:
again, came on a little strong. and i should have presented it in a more respectful manner. and i did quit for a year in case you didnt notice. i came back again since i wanted to see old friends, and see the progress thats been made on the game. one of the things that i respected about stefan in he past was that he worked so hard to upload our content, hiring admin after admin to do it. and i can understand it gets overwhelming. and i still think my idea stands, and is a good one since it reward people who contribute, while still limiting uploads, however i did come on too strong. i should have been more respectful, and ill work on it in the future. however yours is definitely the hardest to make, since im still kinda mad at you for taking personal shots at me, and saying im addicted to a game that you probably have 3-4x the hours on than i do. then after that immediately deleting the thread. its funny, since i read your "how to become an admin" post or whatever it was, and you stated multiple times that maturity was important. yet you run around here trolling, and deleting threads, and so forth. ive found many of your posts disrespectful, and since im apologizing for the bad things ive said, i think itd be fair if you did the same.

Ah, sorry, didn't notice :(

Sorry nyn :smile:

Yeah I saw a screenshot of that. I also recall letting it go when I found out that person was being a nuisance.

I entirely agree with this point. There's really no comparison to make between these two platforms due to the large differences. PC Graal has been mismanaged and forgotten on a large scale. The payment methods are kind of confusing at a brief glance. To top it off, payment is rather expensive. The best option Graal offered was the one-time payment for Classic accounts - which I bought a number of. I would venture to think that's the most money they made off of PC Graal.

Those weren't aimed towards you or to insinuate anything. I wasn't trying to say you were claiming to be anything. The community here generally have a hard time designating who did what or played/play what role. I was stating that the majority of the stuff on iClassic, which was rather forced down my throat, was from a large array of people. In the grand scheme of things, nothing on the server is from anyone specific. Classic is a Hodge-podge of levels with many different developers. Some current players like to tell me that I've done such a good job with Level X or Y, when we just announced that Developer A did this, not myself.


You got pissed at me once for hopping onto Classic PC when I had a question about what a general file-name was. I can't even remember what it was, but it wasn't Classic-specific.

Thank you. It is largely a pain in the butt. Still, some of the levels currently used are badly scripted. We just don't have a dedicated NAT team to assist in switching over everything. I admit I am not awesome at scripting. I can get by and can do some basic stuff (working with Classes, some level scripting, etc.). But all in all, I can't handle bigger projects like re-writing systems. This is actually one of the biggest reasons that we're backed up with projects. We have a lot sitting around 95% completion, but are just waiting to get a number of things re-scripted.


It's just my style of tiling. If I find a good Classic-style LAT, I would have no problems hiring them. We had one - SwedishKing or something along that manner. He made a number of classic-style levels, but ended up going largely inactive due to things going on IRL for him. Can't blame him, but I would love to find a Classic-style LAT that is dedicated, focused, and doesn't have his or her own personal agenda.

I'm not saying it's any better or worse than any other Classic before it. In fact, I will always be in favor of the classic that I, as a baby little noob, started on. The large variety and development of a story, questing galore, etc., was absolutely amazing. I really feel like iClassic pales in comparison to Tyhm's. I call iClassic a hybrid due to the different Classic Back-ups I had to use to piece together what we have. I have 2 different years myself, Xor has another 3, and Rufus has some that he's contributed as well.

No, there aren't many people. And I applaud you for that and give you much respect in that aspect. If Stefan has, then awesome. I wish we'd be offered something nice. I completely agree with you in your work. I would absolutely love to see Classic PC restored to how it was when we were younger folk. I can tell you you'd see my butt there every day.

I agree with you here. Graal is player made and maintained. I am harsh on his agenda's as well, but I defend him as well when necessary. I do get upset when we're working on a big project, then directions change and we start something else on a whim, never finishing the first project. We can't find NATs as it is, let alone one that wants to decode what another NAT has started and continue along that path. Due to this, it gets very frustrating when we have people complain about no updates.

Believe me, I would absolutely love to see you bring Classic back. However, being around here so long there has only been one case where a server broke out of the hidden list. I do wish you the best of luck with your projects though and I really hope that it brings Classic PC up and out. Like I said prior, I would be visiting daily. I would also offer my assistance but I'm waist high in work here.

This. iClassic is nowhere near complete. I can't begin to explain how horrid I feel the server is. When I was offered this position, I jumped all over it because I loved Classic. I wanted to bring that back. However, that's not what the plan was. It's incredibly hard to work on quests - or even start - when I have to appease certain people by releasing specific things within a time limit. It's hard to focus on development with such a large player counter, no dedicated NAT team, and running entirely on volunteer staff. I'm not saying our staff is bad, but it's free work. People don't always have time for work they don't get paid for. Also, I am in no way dissing our NAT crew. They are some of the best; Twinny, fp4, Stefan, Skyld. However, I know that all of them have other things going on - other servers that are primary focus, other games in Stefan's case, or just things going on in real life that take away development focus and time.

None taken. As well, I do not wish you or any of your staff any offense either. I understand your point of view. The jokes on PC Classic I don't mind much in all honesty. I find it funny. I laughed. Sometimes it gets annoying with so many people "hating", but I generally just ignore those people.

Lol!

naaah i read it i just got bored and wanted to mess with you ^.^

The sound made me laugh

Yeah, I don't think you know what the Classic-style is. A classic level isn't detailed for the sake of being detailed. As a matter of fact, it is mostly minimal and designed more for function than "flare". Naturally a good level needs some aesthetic value, but cheap details and obstrusive tiles are signs of bad level design.

For instance, you took the shop level I had made (purposely styled as it is) and turned it into an amateur grade UN fest. My level was clean and styled so that the players could move around freely. You took that clean, relatively Classic design and tossed it in favor of some random lake with a blocking center coupled with random (and rather ugly) stone paths.

And they didn't even crop/shape the tree tops correctly. For shame :( If there's one thing I don't like that a lot of LATs amateurishly do, it's stack tree trops on top of each other like that without cropping them correctly. It looks horrible.

Sounds reasonable, I won't argue with any of that.

I can understand why it would be easy to berate me under the assumption that those beliefs were true, but these are complete myths likely perpetrated via online Chinese whispers or spread misinterpretation.

Crono, I'd just like to say how I admire your ability to be a total minimalist when it comes to designing a level, but yet make it look so good.
I've been trying to recreate that sort of style for ages, but could never do it.

huh...i guess ive been ranting and raving all these years about little updates with little knowledge of what they entailed. i had no idea azrael had to run around a reskript everything...i guess i just had an epiphany...theres been tons of stuff in the work, but its been hard to get out whether it be quests, new towns, or other things that players really want. this has all been hard since they have to reskript everything. so they give us all these boring hat updates and such to keep us busy in the mean time, and make stefan money of course too. i always took them restocking graal shops with more items as lazyness, and stefan wanting to pump out more to get more cash but now i see its because of how difficult it is. i wish i could just run in there with a working knowledge of GS2 and fix everything myself. however i feel like that would take years according to the talks thor and i used to have. plus i dont have a graal gold account so itd still be kinda pointless.

You don't need a gold account to get picked up. It will take a while to learn GS2, but if you focus and put your mind to it it's not terribly hard. It's just like any other programming language.

GS2 is like a foreign language. it can come incredibly easily to some, others not so much. It just depends on on how determined you are. Ask Twinny for help, he is the scripting ninja.

yeah, but you guys probably want pretty experienced scripters, so id like to be able to work on another server as a NAT before going to iclassic. especially since if some guys sends in an application asking for a NAT position with no prior server experience youll probably think hes full of ****. even if i do send you a ton of levels. and i dont know what im doing in graal these days. i dont even know if im gonna stay or not. plus development wise id rather not spend my time with graal script, since its limited to graal. im learning how to make a minecraft mod, and some java stuff along the way. i feel like this is more useful. but idk. if i can take a crashcourse, and learn to be at least decent in a month id definitely look into it.

nevermind. just found this: http://gs2.graalstudios.com/?page=basic
twinnys GS2 guide. it only has basics however. dont know how much use all this would be to you since you need levels decoded and stuff. looks pretty old, and looks like it wont be updated anytime soon too.

anyone got some good up to date GS2 tutorials, which show more than the basics?

This is why I don't really bother with learning GS2 too far in-depth. It's limited only to Graal. I can not apply the language anywhere else. However, I can still apply the thought-process. Most programming languages are the same when it comes to functionality in terms of planning and webbing everything out. The main difference is the coding used. I know how to perform basic coding, I just don't see the use in learning GS2 if it doesn't get me anywhere (else).

yeah exactly. a lot of things use java, so its good to learn. and from looking at GS2 it might be a lot like java. but i dont see why they didnt just keep a language that other games use like java for scripting. if its gonna take a lot of my time, and wont get me all that far then i dont really see a point in doing it. i want to find a tutorial to know what im dealing with if i do decide to take it up though. if i were to learn it itd just be a fun side project. this is why i think stefan needs to start paying devs. not GP's, but devs. theyre contributing to the game, putting in a lot of time, and making the game that he gets paid for. they should definitely get a cut. especially since it would attract more people to it if they get paid for their skills. it would allow you guys to pick the best of the best, and have people log on often to work.

I never understood why graal uses its own type of scripting and coding when it's so player content based,

You can't just insert Java into a game and allow people to script with it. You'd have to get an open-source scripting language like Lua or Ruby, but appeal for those tend to be torn. I personally don't like their formatting and one of the reasons I don't like them, so using one of them means I may have never learned how to script in Graal at all.

I'm backwards, I learned GS1 then GS2 then I learned programming proper, so I can't speak for everyone... but GS2 is much more structured then GS1 ever was. If you know any programming, you should be able to pick it up and jump in without a hitch.

I want to learn Java, but I heard I need to know good GS2 before I start D:

lol not really. you think people start with GS2 in java classes? there are tons of java tutorials throughout the internet.

Then when I finally am I pretty good at it I can make loads of fun games and sell them for a dollar. Profit! Or maybe I'll be really poor...

making a good game isnt easy...learning java isnt really easy either. sorry if i made it sound like it is. its a lot of trial and error. just try and stay with it. but it takes a lot of work to make a good game. or even a crappy game.

I know it's hard, but I just wanna make short projects and let people play with them. I'm not making Terraria or Minecraft in a week, rofl. Yeah it's gonna be hard, a lot of raging. 'SCREW JAVA!!!' *five seconds later* 'I shall now resume my learning of Java!'

Lets make it to one hundred posts!

100 posts?