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-   -   What type of system would you want for spar? (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29393)

Kendama 06-18-2015 12:13 AM
Dawg... you forgot me. Please edit, I probobaly belong in legendary status.

GOAT 06-18-2015 01:22 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 580420)
I would say you would lose 5/10/25/50/100 points if the server does not register at least 10 matches from you every 12 hours. That way no one can camp at the top.
This is a perfect tool to make selective sparring really easy.

Scenario: Player A doesn't care about meaningless tiers, but rather wants to inflate his spar ratio. He starts at bronze, wins until he starts getting tough matches and then lets time bring him back to bronze.

Also, how would a leader board work with a tier system? Only legendary would be on the list?


Quote:
Posted by MBK (Post 580886)
then why do tower takers get a prize at a certain target...why not Sparrers...they should also get hats at 10K,20K or whatever.
I don't see how the towering rewards compare to the reward system mentioned in this thread. Something that includes daily rewards for doing the activity of sparring. That's what I meant. If sparring has daily, weekly, and monthly rewards then so should the other activities.

But to better answer your question in rewards to an equivalent reward system, that's why I agreed on the bring back spar hats thread.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 01:44 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581034)
This is a perfect tool to make selective sparring really easy.

Player goes to bronze, waits a bit, and goes back down.
Which is why I took off losses from profile. They become a "showdeaths" type of thing, where only you can see them, and no one would care.

Ranks would become the judgement point of your skill, because spar ratio does not matter, and are placed in your profile.

Ranks matter, because you are fighting people based on your level. The system would rank you out of everyone (est. 4500+ ranked accounts, since someone said iclassic gets 9000+ active players daily or something).

"Tier: Bronze. You are currently ranked at #xxxx out of xxxx total ranked players" (resets every season)

Zetectic 06-18-2015 02:06 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581034)
This is a perfect tool to make selective sparring really easy.

Scenario: Player A doesn't care about meaningless tiers, but rather wants to inflate his spar ratio. He starts at bronze, wins until he starts getting tough matches and then lets time bring him back to bronze.
easy fix. you won't lose any points below diamond tier for being inactive. so you will be at gold if you aren't going to spar.
lol this whole concept idk what's it called, but it's all used in Pop tag since 2002.

Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 580420)
to prevent AFK players, make sure players have to press yes before entering

GOAT 06-18-2015 02:17 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581038)
Which is why I took off losses from profile. They become a "showdeaths" type of thing, where only you can see them, and no one would care.
Still think people would use the system just to get easy wins. Especially if classic decides to bring milestone hats.

Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581038)
Ranks would become the judgement point of your skill, because spar ratio does not matter, and are placed in your profile.
Only for active sparers, depending on the requirements to merit a ranking. Any good sparer that just likes to spar a couple times a day would be rank inappropriately.

Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581038)
Ranks matter, because you are fighting people based on your level. The system would rank you out of everyone (est. 4500+ ranked accounts, since someone said iclassic gets 9000+ active players daily or something).

"Tier: Bronze. You are currently ranked at #xxxx out of xxxx total ranked players" (resets every season)
So pretty much the best ranked bronze player would be below every sparer from the top tiers. Seems to me that this ranking system goes back to the original problem comet mentioned about needing to constantly spar to be on the board.



I think the more this idea gets discussed the more complicated it gets.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 02:27 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581046)
easy fix. you won't lose any points below diamond tier for being inactive. so you will be at gold if you aren't going to spar.
lol this whole concept idk what's it called, but it's all used in Pop tag since 2002.
I'll just keep explaining to people.

Just an example of the following points/rank/penalty/promotion/demotion system
Rank: Range (penalty after 12 hours or not clocking in at least 10 matches) Promotion start/Demotion star once within rank
Bronze: 1-100 (5 points) Getting ranked = 10 matches, P = 101pts
Silver: 101-250 (10 points) P = 251pts, D = 50pts
Gold: 251-500 (25 points) P = 501pts, D = 175pts
Diamond: 501-1000 (50 points) P = 1001pts, D = 500pts
Legendary: 1001+ (100 points) D = 750pts
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581046)
to prevent AFK players, make sure players have to press yes before entering
In every ranked game, if you are not ready then that is your own fault. Once you join queue for the server to find you a match, then you are at fault if afk, and people will happily take your points for their prizes.

Zetectic 06-18-2015 02:33 AM
Aguzo, yours sounds too complicated. Sometime after tomorrow I will bring my ideas about the new spar system with some visual images.

Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581049)
In every ranked game, if you are not ready then that is your own fault. Once you join queue for the server to find you a match, then you are at fault if afk, and people will happily take your points for their prizes.
lol 'oh he said it's instant game, but i had to wait 20 minutes. then i lost b/c i got disconnected for not moving.' hella this is whats exactly gonna happen @ the 1st day. there's gonna be 500 players queuing and you can't blame the longer wait time.
when you find the opponent, theres gotta be an option saying 'yes' and 'no' and add that countdown thingy from the streak room.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 02:37 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581047)
Still think people would use the system just to get easy wins. Especially if classic decides to bring milestone hats.

Only for active sparers, depending on the requirements to merit a ranking. Any good sparer that just likes to spar a couple times a day would be rank inappropriately.
They can't get easy wins, because if you win enough matches then you will be promoted, and what good would that do? you won't gain anything from getting a ton of wins.

1. Your rank will never get higher by facing easy people.
2. You won't gain any prize pools that actually matter.

No, let's say 4000+ people start using ranked matches for the first time right? Then the higher tiers will be winning more often than lower tier players. If you aren't putting effort into ranking up, then your rank will disappear either way. If they just spar a couple times a day then they should be at least silver-gold (which is fine), if they spar higher tiers in 1 match, and win then they will get even more points.

Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581047)
So pretty much the best ranked bronze player would be below every sparer from the top tiers. Seems to me that this ranking system goes back to the original problem comet mentioned about needing to constantly spar to be on the board.
I don't think the problem was constantly sparring to be on board, I believe it was "anyone can spar a lot, and be high on the board". A tier system would require skill, and you can't camp at the top.

GOAT 06-18-2015 02:38 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581053)
Aguzo, yours sounds too complicated. Sometime after tomorrow I will bring my ideas about the new spar system with some visual images.
Don't worry there's still more. They still need to figure out how the gaining and losing of points will work along with how the players ranking will affect those points. The fun part is still to come.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 02:39 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581053)
Aguzo, yours sounds too complicated. Sometime after tomorrow I will bring my ideas about the new spar system with some visual images.
Just search league of legends', and clash of clans' ranking systems if you can't understand what I am saying/trying to say in a simple way.

Not entirely sure how elo works in league, but I heard it is similar to clash

Clash: you are in leagues, and depending on how many stars you get against someone else's village you get certain amount of trophies(also based on opponent's town hall level/league)

You need a certain amount of trophies for each league, and rank up/fall according to your trophy count.

You can't "selective spar" against another town hall, but you could get lucky and find an opponent with low defenses/a lot of resources, but you would need to fall down to trophy range of 900-1200 to find inactive town halls with lots of resources in pumps. Other wise the higher your trophy count is, the more active people are, so less gold "less ez wins"

Zetectic 06-18-2015 02:46 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581057)
Just search league of legends', and clash of clans' ranking systems if you can't understand what I am saying/trying to say in a simple way.

Not entirely sure how elo works in league, but I heard it is similar to clash

Clash: you are in leagues, and depending on how many stars you get against someone else's village you get certain amount of trophies(also based on opponent's town hall level/league)

You need a certain amount of trophies for each league, and rank up/fall according to your trophy count.
I played Clash of Clans in the past. it was totally abused by players. i saw level 90s with th9 at bronze 1.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 02:51 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581059)
I played Clash of Clans in the past. it was totally abused. i see level 90s with th9 at bronze 1.
Yes I know, people camp around that trophy range to farm. But we are talking about wins, not gold. Either way losses are taken out of profiles. So the point is getting your rank up. Total town halls destroyed "total wins" in clash don't really show your skill, whereas your rank/league would.

Besides... who wouldn't want to put in effort to get gralats/hats/hat ticket + belt?
Each tiers prizes are based accordingly to skill level in the op at the bottom

GOAT 06-18-2015 02:57 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581054)
I don't think the problem was constantly sparring to be on board, I believe it was "anyone can spar a lot, and be high on the board". A tier system would require skill, and you can't camp at the top.
Quote:
Posted by Comyt (Post 579337)
Change the leaderboard again. The old leaderboard had a few flaws and could be abused. The current leaderboard is even worse and was intended to "increase sparring activity" but that is the opposite of what it is doing. This leaderboard ranks people based on how much they spar for the entire season and pretty much forces someone to throw away a huge chunk of their life to get their name to the top. Nobody wants to do this. Sparring should be a thing you do for fun when you are bored, not something you do as a full-time job. Sarah, who is the current #1 on this leaderboard and has been for the past year or so, does not even like this leaderboard. And I, the #1 on the previous leaderboard for multiple years, do not like that one. We need a wins per day/week/all time leaderboard, just like there is for player killing and baddy killing (which is useless by the way, why do they have a decent leaderboard and sparrers do not?). This would probably accomplish the goal that the current leaderboard came nowhere near accomplishing, and increase overall activity. Instead of throwing away their life for a whole 3 months to get to the top, sparrers can now throw away their life for just a day or a week to get their name on the leaderboard. Also, with this leaderboard, people would start setting goals for themselves, like "I'm going to get 500 wins today" or "I'm going to get 5,000 wins this week" and compete with their peers for the top spot of the day/week. This, instead of "I'm going to get 1,000 points today and still be 30,000 points behind Sarah with my name nowhere near the top of the leaderboard." If this is added, it can also get rid of the ugly iDevice/Facebook split on the leaderboard, since one can't really make the argument "this person is only winning more spars than me because they're on their pc."
Since this thread was a result from comets thread I made the reference to that point.



We can go on and on about this, but the only way of knowing if this will work is by being added. Idea sounded cool at first, but once I discussed it, seems like it will end up with the same problem of having to no-life it to be rank high. A choice has to be made in regards to this ranking system and it's between allowing players to camp at the top or make it so players have to constantly spar to stay on top.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 03:09 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581064)
Since this thread was a result from comets thread I made the reference to that point.



We can go on and on about this, but the only way of knowing if this will work is by being added. Idea sounded cool at first, but once I discussed it, seems like it will end up with the same problem of having to no-life it to be rank high. A choice has to be made in regards to this ranking system and it's between allowing players to camp at the top or make it so players have to constantly spar to stay on top.
The words you put about comyts quote in bold is basically what my quote was saying. "You have to spar a lot to stay at the top". I fixed that already, by putting prizes as the following and having to spar skilled players to stay at the top/get demoted:

Unixmad would have to add the prizes accordingly to their preferences.
So just an example

Bronze: 100g for top 100 (prize pools cash out resets every hour)
Silver: 500g for top 50 (prize pool resets every 12 hours)
Gold: 1000g for top 25 (prize pool resets every day)
Diamond: 2,500g for top 10 (prize pool resets every week)
Legendary: 10,000g for top 5 (prize pool resets every month
Godlike: #1. Belt and hat ticket. #2. Chooses a hat (made by gfx) #3. Receives only hat left. (resets every season/3 months)

Oh, and sorry to the people that do not understand how I am trying to explain the system. It is new, yes for you, but for other games a lot of people understand it. I might be adding a lot of detail, but they are just potential key points to making it un-abuse-able. Also, if you still have questions or concerns try to either message me about it, before posting, since most of the questions are already answered in op, or post an idea on how to make it better.

For those who have read the op: feel free to post any flaws, and I will try to fix it.

Kendama 06-18-2015 03:15 AM
Too many #'s O.O too complicated for graal

Aguzo 06-18-2015 03:33 AM
Quote:
Posted by Kendama (Post 581071)
Too many #'s O.O too complicated for graal
Yes, I feel like people started to become disoriented when I started talking about the potential points system.

Not sure if it's too hard to multiply the following based on tiers for some, but I'll do it for you :D so no worries.

Let's say you are in silver okay, following me?

You have 3 hearts remaining after you win, so that x 5 = 15 points

2.5 hearts x 5 = class? anyone? "ooo, ooo, i know, i know". "Yes pacboy?" "12.5 points?". "Very good pac, 10 gold stars for you"

2.0 x 5 = 10

1.5 x 5 = 7.5

1.0 x 5 = 5

0.5 x 5 = 2.5

More advanced mathmeticinalimicalness equations (based on lower/higher tiers)

WARNING not for the feint of heart or easily cringe-able.

Tier/league Higher than you replace, 5 with 10. Tier/league lower, replace 5 with 2.5

Fulgore 06-18-2015 03:35 AM
This is all stupidly unnecessary/complex.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 03:37 AM
Quote:
Posted by Fulgore (Post 581073)
This is all stupidly unnecessary/complex.
Honestly, you don't have to understand for it to work. That's the scripter's job. Everyone else can just enjoy, it's basically almost the same as the ratio system that thallen put. Where the system takes the ratio of your opponent and multiplies it by 10, then adds to your score.

Fulgore 06-18-2015 03:47 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581076)
Honestly, you don't have to understand for it to work. That's the scripter's job. Everyone else can just enjoy, it's basically almost the same as the ratio system that thallen put. Where the system takes the ratio of your opponent and multiplies it by 10, then adds to your score.
It certainly isn't that I don't understand..though nice subtle stab.

This just is not needed for spar in iClassic right now. As many have already said, there aren't enough people who are on/sparring at once for this to consistently be a good option.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 03:53 AM
Quote:
Posted by Fulgore (Post 581078)
It certainly isn't that I don't understand..though nice subtle stab.

This just is not needed for spar in iClassic right now. As many have already said, there aren't enough people who are on/sparring at once for this to consistently be a good option.
I'm not even attacking you, it was in general... I said you, but meant anyone... don't be so sensitive man.

I look at the votes and it's mostly just alumni republicans not wanting any bills to pass. While the democratic party is trying to please the public.

MBK 06-18-2015 03:54 AM
Quote:
Posted by G Fatal (Post 580934)
Spar isn't skill when 9/10 of them delay or lag.
Tiers play there own tier? (if so that will make it more inactive) tiers play other tiers? would ruin point of the tiers and would still not measure skill accurately.
I'm a delayer...so I know sparring with a delay also takes effort nd sometimes..probably more.

Fulgore 06-18-2015 03:56 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581079)
I'm not even attacking you, it was in general... I said you, but meant anyone... don't be so sensitive man.

I look at the votes and it's mostly just alumni republicans not wanting any bills to pass. While the democratic party is trying to please the public.
I go on political rants please don't make that incorrect analogy or I may explode. And there are more people on the thread who would prefer others as well, not just us. Generalizations aren't usually good in proving a case.

Either way, opinions of everyone should be treated the same. Just because there might be some Alumni representation on the thread against the idea doesn't mean we're willfully trying to stop it. We're just stating reasons why we dislike it.

MBK 06-18-2015 04:02 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581079)
I'm not even attacking you, it was in general... I said you, but meant anyone... don't be so sensitive man.

I look at the votes and it's mostly just alumni republicans not wanting any bills to pass. While the democratic party is trying to please the public.
Hikaru,it's time you stop posting on this thread.Your idea is the best suggestion that we could have right now for sparring.But you see,these people here don't want to be serious or want to even support anything or anyone trying to improve **** that they always whine about.You did you job...now go do whatever you do when you didn't started wasting your time on this thread.Cheers mate <3

Aguzo 06-18-2015 04:14 AM
Quote:
Posted by Fulgore (Post 581083)
I go on political rants please don't make that analogy or I may explode. And there are more people on the thread who would prefer others as well, not just us. Generalizations aren't usually good in proving a case.
Any more ideas? Don't choose for others, your statement should only count for yourself. Please contribute to the thread, thank you :)

All I'm saying is that I see half the votes for option 5 from alumni/friends of members. Just pointing it out, it's kind of like the whole "vote what your buddy voted" sort of thing. I have asked some of the voters for the other options, and most agreed that #4 is great, but probably lacking amount of sparrers, and dedication from devs.

Lacking sparrers: Player-matches fixed that, plus I think there are enough sparrers for lots of daily ranked matches. Adding prizes fixes amount in ranked matches either way. Don't want to spar? Then I'll take the prizes by myself, I'm sure someone else will happily take your spot on ladder.

Dedication from devs: Up to them, I saw rufus on earlier adding some cool stuff like the queue countdown, and I think gs streak count? Either way, the staff seem interested in helping out. That's all that matters. Doesn't have to be my idea. If anyone has better ideas, then by all means post it.

Quote:
Posted by MBK (Post 581085)
Hikaru,it's time you stop posting on this thread.Your idea is the best suggestion that we could have right now for sparring.But you see,these people here don't want to be serious or want to even support anything or anyone trying to improve **** that they always whine about.You did you job...now go do whatever you do when you didn't started wasting your time on this thread.Cheers mate <3
Haha, I can't man. I haven't slept for more than 28 hours. Stayed up too late yesterday, and now I have to wait for night time again.

I want to keep posting to at least add one of the things mentioned and answer questions, because I am bored of sparring, and only want to fight good people :( + instantly, and have a real ranking system.

This ranking system could even qualify as a means to finally have a UTC in iclassic. Think about how much fun that could be.

GOAT 06-18-2015 04:23 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581047)
So pretty much the best ranked bronze player would be below every sparer from the top tiers. Seems to me that this ranking system goes back to the original problem comet mentioned about needing to constantly spar to be on the board.
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581054)
I don't think the problem was constantly sparring to be on board, I believe it was "anyone can spar a lot, and be high on the board". A tier system would require skill, and you can't camp at the top.
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581066)
The words you put about comyts quote in bold is basically what my quote was saying. "You have to spar a lot to stay at the top". I fixed that already, by putting prizes as the following and having to spar skilled players to stay at the top/get demoted:
ok man sure

Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581066)
Godlike: #1. Belt and hat ticket. #2. Chooses a hat (made by gfx) #3. Receives only hat left. (resets every season/3 months)
oh my


Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581072)
Yes, I feel like people started to become disoriented when I started talking about the potential points system.

Not sure if it's too hard to multiply the following based on tiers for some, but I'll do it for you :D so no worries.

Let's say you are in silver okay, following me?

You have 3 hearts remaining after you win, so that x 5 = 15 points

2.5 hearts x 5 = class? anyone? "ooo, ooo, i know, i know". "Yes pacboy?" "12.5 points?". "Very good pac, 10 gold stars for you"

2.0 x 5 = 10

1.5 x 5 = 7.5

1.0 x 5 = 5

0.5 x 5 = 2.5

More advanced mathmeticinalimicalness equations (based on lower/higher tiers)

WARNING not for the feint of heart or easily cringe-able.

Tier/league Higher than you replace, 5 with 10. Tier/league lower, replace 5 with 2.5
So if I beat Comet the #1 ranked legendary player by .5 I would get the same amount of points as if I would beat Fulgore :D the #100 ranked legendary player by .5? If so, how does that reflect skills with the points you receive?



Note/FYI: Miraculously a spar related thread managed to stay on-topic without any flamewars, so if you want it to stay like that I suggest you drop the smartassm attitude by trying to make it look as if people on this thread are stupid. Well MBK is, but he's just a cheerleader :D:P:love:

Incognito 06-18-2015 04:27 AM
hey guys this is my first post and I hope this can be somewhat relevant to this thread

I think spar leaderboards should be taken out completely, and instead:

I think that in order to make sparring more meaningful we need to have single spar tournaments like GST. It shows who are the best based on how well they do and it creates more popularity and relevance to spar. and you don't have to basically no life the game in order to succeed, for example many skilled inactive sparrers who come back right at GST are still able to perform at a high quality.
This probably won't solve the consistency of sparring, but it will definitely lure in more players around the times they happen.

This isn't really a spar system but our end goal is to help the sparring community so I wanted to share this

Aguzo 06-18-2015 04:50 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581091)
So if I beat Comet the #1 ranked legendary player by .5 I would get the same amount of points as if I would beat Fulgore :D the #100 ranked legendary player by .5? If so, how does that reflect skills with the points you receive?
Honestly, it would all depend on how many sparrers there are. I'm pretty sure fulgore and comet are closely matched so yes, I believe you should get the same score. Unless fulgore was in diamond, then you would divide what you would get from comet by 2.

Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581091)
Note/FYI: Miraculously a spar related thread managed to stay on-topic without any flamewars, so if you want it to stay like that I suggest you drop the smartassm attitude by trying to make it look as if people on this thread are stupid. Well MBK is, but he's just a cheerleader :D:P:love:
Sorry, if I made you feel stupid. I am just lacking rest, and was impatient in having to keep repeating myself due to having a long op, after so many edits, and being mad that I couldn't sleep otherwise I would have the same problem again at night. Hopefully we can all come to an agreement, and at least learn to disagree by having real reasons, besides dev teams dedication, and or lack of sparrers (which there are enough based on the tier list which only put what I have seen)

Quote:
Posted by Incognito (Post 581092)
hey guys this is my first post and I hope this can be somewhat relevant to this thread

I think spar leaderboards should be taken out completely, and instead:

I think that in order to make sparring more meaningful we need to have single spar tournaments like GST. It shows who are the best based on how well they do and it creates more popularity and relevance to spar. and you don't have to basically no life the game in order to succeed, for example many skilled inactive sparrers who come back right at GST are still able to perform at a high quality.
This probably won't solve the consistency of sparring, but it will definitely lure in more players around the times they happen.

This isn't really a spar system but our end goal is to help the sparring community so I wanted to share this
Thank you for posting that. I have already thought about this before, but the problem is you need a ranking system to have a tournament. Otherwise, you won't have a good show to watch between the best of the best currently.

Taking it out would also give no purpose to spar. Pretty much just wasting time raising your wins, and the only thing that would matter is ratio (which can be fake by selective sparring).

rickclops 06-18-2015 04:58 AM
Quote:
Posted by Darkk (Post 580814)
Hikaru

Demote the following
Legendary: Sean, Contego, PK, T3ck

!!
Sean is one of the best sparrers of all time. You're uninformed.

Aguzo's Legendary tier should be split up into 3 further tiers.

Zetectic 06-18-2015 05:00 AM
Quote:
Posted by rickclops (Post 581101)
Sean is one of the best sparrers of all time. You're uninformed.

Aguzo's Legendary tier should be split up into 3 further tiers.
No that's enough tiers, people who maxed at legendary can just get extra points or some

Incognito 06-18-2015 05:01 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581095)
Thank you for posting that. I have already thought about this before, but the problem is you need a ranking system to have a tournament. Otherwise, you won't have a good show to watch between the best of the best currently.

Taking it out would also give no purpose to spar. Pretty much just wasting time raising your wins, and the only thing that would matter is ratio (which can be fake by selective sparring).
oops, ya I forgot about that. Couldn't the same system in gs scores where bigger scores give more points while lower scores give less be implemented? Sadly it won't get rid of selective sparring and boosting however....but in the tourney it will prove that their record was truly meaningless when they fail first round

A tourney + system#4 is a graal players dream, but this sounds like a nightmare for staff to manage

rickclops 06-18-2015 05:03 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581102)
No that's enough tiers, people who maxed at legendary can just get extra points or some
All the people in legendary tier are very good, but not in the same league as each other.

Brett would defeat Comyt 10-0 or 9-1 consistently in series.

On another note, an invite only sparring league would be fun.

MBK 06-18-2015 05:09 AM
Quote:
Posted by rickclops (Post 581104)
All the people in legendary tier are very good, but not in the same league as each other.

Brett would defeat Comyt 10-0 or 9-1 consistently in series.

On another not, an invite only sparring league would be fun.
Good idea,but not with our community...we already have the Alumni **** going on.

GOAT 06-18-2015 05:11 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581095)
Honestly, it would all depend on how many sparrers there are. I'm pretty sure fulgore and comet are closely matched so yes, I believe you should get the same score. Unless fulgore was in diamond, then you would divide what you would get from comet by 2.
I used those names for effect, but what I was trying to emphasize was a #1 ranking vs a #100 ranking in the upper tier(legendary). Also, "I'm pretty sure fulgore and comet are closely matched so yes, I believe you should get the same score" remember the reason you brought this idea was because you wanted a system that would rate a player based on skills. I don't want you to give me an answer on your opinion, but rather the system you're suggesting.

I will add another scenario: Brett is #1 legendary and Kuz, MBK, Fulgore, Ash, and Sardon are #96, 97, 98, 99, 100 in the legendary rankings. GOAT and Pacman are the tier below with the same points and tied in their ranking.

I happen to beat Brett 5 in a row by .5. Pacman beats the other 5 in order by .5. Does it make sense that I would get the same amount of points that pacman got? Skill would definitely not be measured accurately.


Hint: with the lower tiers it doesn't matter because the skill level between the #1 ranking and last # ranking from each tier won't be a big difference. The upper tier is different because it doesn't have a max, so the difference in skill within 2 legendary sparers can be comical.




Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581095)
Sorry, if I made you feel stupid.
lol nice, very sneaky how you through that insult there. No worries, you didn't.

Aguzo 06-18-2015 05:19 AM
[QUOTE=rickclops;581104]All the people in legendary tier are very good, but not in the same league as each other.[QUOTE]

Yes, but the less tiers the more matches.

Quote:
Posted by rickclops (Post 581104)
On another not, an invite only sparring league would be fun.
Would be great, if people wouldn't abuse/spar their friends for points.
If that were implemented, it could be fixed by just adding a time-out restriction after you sparred that same person for 2-3 matches during a set period of time.

Clops fights Sean 2 times.

Server: "You are not allowed to request a match with this person for at least 23:59:01"

Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581102)
No that's enough tiers, people who maxed at legendary can just get extra points or some
After legendary it is God-Like, but only top 3 legendaries are placed in it, whilst still maintaining their legendary tier for match-making, but I believe you should lose more points while being in God-Like.

Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581108)
I will add another scenario: Brett is #1 legendary and Kuz, MBK, Fulgore, Ash, and Sardon are #96, 97, 98, 99, 100 in the legendary rankings. GOAT and Pacman are the tier below with the same points and tied in their ranking.

I happen to beat Brett 5 in a row by .5. Pacman beats the other 5 in order by .5. Does it make sense that I would get the same amount of points that pacman got? Skill would definitely not be measured accurately.
If that were to happen, then that would be a huge coincidence and the server should still give you the same scores, but it also depends on who gets dropped down first, and getting matches with certain tiers does not always happen, same goes for lower tiers, unless your tier does not have enough players currently sparring.

rickclops 06-18-2015 05:22 AM
Quote:
Would be great, if people wouldn't abuse/spar their friends for points.
If that were implemented, it could be fixed by just adding a time-out restriction after you sparred that same person for 2-3 matches during a set period of time.
I was thinking of a league run by players. I don't think it's likely staff would run something like this.

contego 06-18-2015 05:24 AM
Before coming on iclassic I might have agreed I was doing pretty well on UN for a 4 yr break from Graal. But after seeing all the experienced really skilled sparrers on iclassic I'm at most a "diamond" and that's pretty generous. But that's okay I'm sure with more practice, patience, and focus I will get it back. =) Thanks for the recognition but I don't want a hand out ranking, I earn mine. =p

Aguzo 06-18-2015 05:27 AM
Quote:
Posted by rickclops (Post 581112)
I was thinking of a league run by players. I don't think it's likely staff would run something like this.
Ah, I get what you mean. I think that would be too biased/favoritism. You need staff to run things and monitor them always. Unless this is just for fun.

For example. I used to have a gb team for gears of war 3. If we won a match and did not have evidence, then the enemy team would dispute, and create some bs story on how they won, but didn't. Then staff would give them the win. People would do anything for points, and in GB you would request matches. Very abuse-able system with lag switches, host-kicking, ending games early, people having capture-cards and you didn't.

rickclops 06-18-2015 06:44 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 581115)
Ah, I get what you mean. I think that would be too biased/favoritism. You need staff to run things and monitor them always. Unless this is just for fun.

For example. I used to have a gb team for gears of war 3. If we won a match and did not have evidence, then the enemy team would dispute, and create some bs story on how they won, but didn't.
Thallen and I have already run leagues before. There has to be a host to view match wins. Cheating (reporting wise) is one of the first issues that was solved. There's not necessarily less bias with staff hosting. Running a 1v1 league is easy. The worst problem is with some people who start losing not sparring often.

Running a team draft league is much more complicated, but fun when it works.

MBK 06-18-2015 06:48 AM
Quote:
Posted by GOAT (Post 581091)
ok man sure


oh my



So if I beat Comet the #1 ranked legendary player by .5 I would get the same amount of points as if I would beat Fulgore :D the #100 ranked legendary player by .5? If so, how does that reflect skills with the points you receive?



Note/FYI: Miraculously a spar related thread managed to stay on-topic without any flamewars, so if you want it to stay like that I suggest you drop the smartassm attitude by trying to make it look as if people on this thread are stupid. Well MBK is, but he's just a cheerleader :D:P:love:
*wink wink* yes they are GOATkun <3

Aguzo 06-18-2015 07:11 AM
Quote:
Posted by rickclops (Post 581156)
Thallen and I have already run leagues before. There has to be a host to view match wins. Cheating (reporting wise) is one of the first issues that was solved. There's not necessarily less bias with staff hosting. Running a 1v1 league is easy. The worst problem is with some people who start losing not sparring often.

Running a team draft league is much more complicated, but fun when it works.
I see, could work, but would only be available through a third-party, instead of an integrated system for graal.

Darkk 06-18-2015 08:01 AM
Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 580816)
No one is getting demoted, because the list will be based on what I have seen throught constistency and not just someone having a good day/bad day. Besides the list is just an example for the xxxth time
Was this list a troll or something?!1!1!

MikvaGraal 06-18-2015 10:08 AM
Quote:
Posted by Darkk (Post 581175)
Was this list a troll or something?
its a biased list im not going to take it seriously anymore

Multipas* 06-18-2015 10:38 AM
The list is irrelevant because if type four sparr format becomes implemented everyone will be same rank at start.

Crono 06-18-2015 01:13 PM
Or...you know...a normal MMR system without deviation...

Zetectic 06-18-2015 03:35 PM
Quote:
Posted by rickclops (Post 581112)
I was thinking of a league run by players. I don't think it's likely staff would run something like this.
that's what i tried to did few months ago. A league run by me. Demrow tried to put Graal into MLG, didn't work out. so I tried to make Graal MLG, but there weren't many supports. good players were afraid of facing other players since I told them everything will be recorded + posted on a website.

CrimeWatcher 06-18-2015 04:14 PM
For everyone saying this list is inaccurate, it is rigged, biased, etc. It's because it is only an example, and if you actually read what Aguzo typed up, you would understand.

Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 580825)
The tier is already based as an example for the end of a season.


Quote:
Posted by Hikaru (Post 580420)
Edit! Example of a ranking list, don't be offended. If I placed you in a certain tier it means you are around that level/could potentially be higher if you win enough against the people in that tier/fall if you lose enough.

bbobb 06-18-2015 06:18 PM
Having #4 implemented into the game would be a dream come true.

MBK 06-18-2015 06:34 PM
"if this happens the game will get better if that happens the game will get better"just shut up everyone.Each one of you know that they won't implement it.Keep building castles in the air.That's the most you can do.huh

Aguzo 06-18-2015 09:05 PM
Quote:
Posted by Crono (Post 581296)
Or...you know...a normal MMR system without deviation...
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4063168186

This? Best explanation of that I could find for everyone else. Hope it helps.

rickclops 06-19-2015 07:51 PM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic (Post 581329)
that's what i tried to did few months ago. A league run by me. Demrow tried to put Graal into MLG, didn't work out. so I tried to make Graal MLG, but there weren't many supports. good players were afraid of facing other players since I told them everything will be recorded + posted on a website.
You'd need most of the leaders of the strong spar guilds on board. Anyone who is scared of having their spar recorded probably isn't very sure of their sparring skill.


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