Graalians - The future of GraalOnline

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Quote:

Posted by Dusty (Post 764704)

Even as an experienced dev, developing is a pain. It's no wonder Graal is running out of developers fast. Something I conceptualized a while ago:

HTML Code:

Graal Development Suite Concept



In order to best support the future of Graal development, development

needs to be simplified and accessible for everyone. Especially now with

Windows 10 becoming more and more popular Graal is losing its already

small pool of developers as tools such as GraalEditor cease to work with

newer operating systems. Without replenishing this development tool

Graal will eventually come to a grinding halt as servers no longer have

developers to support the mobile servers.



In its prime of developer support, developing on Graal was never simple

nor easy. It was a frustrating but rewarding process. Even when the

level editor was still being updated you still had to deal with cumbersome

processes when creating levels, such as having to restart the client every

time you edited an image as the new version of the image didn't show.

Eventually as Graal was expanded tools were band-aided together instead

of new features being fully realized and implemented into with its fullest

potential.



As Graal grows in popularity we're not properly utilizing this growth to

replenish the developer pool. Developers are moving on with their lives

and the tools are too broken and too out-of-date to bring in new developers

as fast as we're losing them. Even with updated tools, it's all such a slow

and broken process that it's hard to pull in new interest when they have to

go through so many loops to see a result. It's not uncommon to see new

users who get frustrated with "I can't see my image in Graalshop!" and

"How do I make a Zone level??" And having to give them complicated

multi-step instructions on how to fix their images so they're compatible

with 15 year-old tools and how to add scripts to their level so they can

simply make a level for Zone.



Combining all the tools into one so developers can develop nearly all the

content within a single program will greatly simplify the entire process and

ease the headache many new users often get frustrated with that risks

pushing them away forever.



-----



All-in-One development tool for the following:

  - General

    - All tools are loaded/edited from within this one program. No individual

      programs for each resource. File > New would open a window letting you

      pick what new file you wish to create:

      > NW

      > Gmap

      > GANI

      > PNG/GIF/MNG

    - Each resource is managed as a tab at the top of the window. Some way to

      differ each tab type(NW vs Gani for example) would be beneficial.

      Maybe icons or color?

    - Server Profiles

      Some people work on different servers, and it's important for them to

      isolate specific images/ganis/files. Server Profiles will be a way to

      change your development environment to support the server you are

      currently working on. If you are working on say, Era instead of Classic

      you could set your server profile as Era. Obviously you could create your

      own profiles(such as a new project you want to work on for fun). Profiles

      will create a folder and structure for images/ganis/tiledefs and similar

      things and prioritize loading these resources before any other. Maybe even

      have these profiles load in default tilesets for their respective servers.



      Example structure:

      + Profiles/

        + Classic/

          + Images/

          + Ganis/

          + Tiledefs/

          + Classes/

        + Era/

          + Images/

          + Ganis/

          + Tiledefs/

          + Classes/



    - Class support. Classes are an integral part of any organized server and

      thus essential to overworld development. Classes can be loaded from a

      folder(using the same text/file format as servers use for class files)

      and act as supplemental NPCs when a script in an overworld has joined to it.

      This would also work with the above server profiles so you don't need to

      worry about what classes will load for the specific overworld you're

      using(for example having an overworld load the Classic "tree" class

      instead of the Era "tree" class when you're working on the Era overworld.

    - Because all the tools are combined, this single program can control and

      manage its own file cache as files are created within in, no longer

      needing to scan folder structures for updates(though maybe an option

      for those who want to use an external image editing tool).

    - Designate the MAIN resource folder(c:/Program Files/Graal) as well as

      add more resource folders to also cache.

      (For example if I want to add a folder on my desktop it will also

      load/cache/scan changes this folder as well).

    - Live update of resources. As images and ganis are edited their new

      versions are loaded so you can see changes on-the-fly.

    - Server Flags? Maybe necessary for cosmetic script parsing, but seems

      like a stretch.



  - NW Editing

    - Updated image support for all image formats the client support

      (png,gif,>8bit images,jpegs).

    - Shortcut to create new image in the NPC editing window(Browse|New).

    - Tiledefs are managed with a tool instead of with scripts. Possible

      to maybe support loading them from scripts if found, however

    - Basic GS1/GS2 parsing. Since we can no longer play-test levels, 

      we need to be able to load as many cosmetic functions as possible.

      For example, setting the gani of an NPC via this.ani = "idle" or

      setCharAni("idle",null). Should parse onCreated first, then onPlayerEnters

      secondary. As well, serverside is parsed first and then clientside.

      May be necessary to parse through paths of functions to enable the most

      amount of compatibility as possible. For example:



      function onCreated() {

        updateImage();

      }



      function updateImage() {

        this.image = "block.png";

      }

      

      As well as cosmetic, basic modifiers should be parsed as well since

      Graal does not support loading floating-point NPC positions. So support

      of things such as this.x += .5;this.x++; and this.x = this.x+.5; are

      necessary to get the fullest extent of support as it is a common method

      of placing NPCs in server development.

    - Light Effects should also be supported, and with the above cosmetic

      parsing display the fullest emulation possible. This includes

      different modes.

    - Vertical tabs on the right will leave much room for expansion of

      new tabs as needed. These tabs will work similar to the radio 

      buttons of the current editor, changing the tool categories

      (tileset, predefined tiles, etc...).

    - It will be impractical to support old Control-NPCs maybe some

      basic built-in tools like path generator, tree placing and so on.

    - Layer support is mandatory, including a layer manager similar

      to Photoshop with thumbnails of each layer.

    - NPCs with setShape and no image should have some sort of visual

      representation of the area they block. While clicking on their

      shape should allow selection detecetion like current GraalEditor

      it should be lowest priority under all other NPCs. It's annoying

      trying to click character NPCs while they are obstructed by a

      setShape() NPC 20 tiles to the left.

    - Adding character NPCs like GraalEditor should be simple. It doesn't

      need to be as complex as the old method, but allowing simple

      things like adding a character and setting their look and gani,

      and placing the script with new GS2 instead of GS1.

    - Being able to toggle visibility of all level aspects, such as

      links, signs, npcs(should be divided into categories:

      character npcs, setshape npcs and regular npcs)



    

  - GMap Editing

    - Instead of loading gmaps via scripts instead these should be

      treated as levels themselves, similar to how servers handle

      them. You simply open the gmap file and it will load the gmap

      as a large level in the editor.

    - Create a low-resolution render of the gmap on loading, and

      update this "thumbnail" every time a change is made to the

      render buffer.

    - The horrible + cursor should be removed as it's counter-intuitive 

      and always in the way. Scrollbars should be visible no matter

      the size, and instead navigating will be assisted by a "map" pan tool.

      Holding space will overlay the current thumbnail preview of the

      entire gmap and the camera position. You can navigate by

      dragging the camera box around.

    - A way to modify the layout of the gmap.

      - Expanding the gmap should be easy. You should be able to change

      its size with a simple window interface that lets you input the

      width and height(in levels). Photoshop has a useful tool when

      modifying canvas size that lets you designate which direction old

      content should be "pushed". For example if you start with a 5x5

      gmap and resize it to 7x7 you can tell it to push the old content

      to the bottom-right and the newly created levels will be added to

      the top and left sides of the gmap.

    - Ability to export the gmap as a whole image, at various

      resolutions(100%, 50%, 35% and so on).



  - Gani Editing

    - Visual-assisted sprite addition(see Jerret's GSPro tool)

    - Panning should now be changed to SPACE+drag

    - Dragging will now default to selecting multiple sprites at one time,

      allowing you to move, cut/copy/paste and other functions to

      multiple sprites at one time. Shift+LMB will add an individual sprite

      to the selection and Alt+LMB will remove the sprite from the selection.

    - Support of ROTATESPRITE/STRETCHX/STRETCHY and other already supported

      gani functions by the client should be supported visually within

      the Gani editor.

    - Just like the NW support, light effects should also be supported.

      Perhaps clicking/selecting these light-effect sprites should only

      detect it as a valid click if the post-render alpha value is > 150

      to avoid selecting a light effect because you clicked on a portion

      of the image that is hardly visible.

    - A separate window for managing ALL of the ATTR/PARAM values.

      Common values should be visible on the main interface as current

      GraalShop works, but extented support is necessary as many servers

      utilize all 30 Attributes.

    - Support for modifying all default player values, such as body colors.



  - PNG Editing

    - Simple and intuitive like MSPaint, easy for new users.

    - Layer and transparency support.

    - Alpha support for loading and maintaining alpha channel, but not

      editing(too complex, ruins the simplicity). This is for

      compatibility reasons, so images loaded with alpha values are

      not broken if saved.

    - Create blank canvases or templates(for example the hat template)

      that serves as a background and not part of the image.

    - Palette support. Either remember palettes for individual images,

      or load the palette from the image itself when the image is loaded.

      Images that match the constraints of the body image should have

      appropriate tooltips/indications in the palette for their respective

      color-swapping functionality(skin, coat, etc...)

    - A preview function for player resources(heads/ganis) that shows what 

      the image looks like when animated in default ganis, such as

      walk.gani and sword.gani

Isn't he working on a new program thing for development?

Quote:

Posted by Weeno (Post 764536)

A game that is heavily based on PvP but enjoyable for all types of people. So not too childish and kid friendly but not too bloody horror violence

Era

Quote:

Posted by LoX (Post 765771)

Era

Community is too much cancer

First and foremost, like everyone said or agreed upon, there should be new dev tools to use and official documentation for gs2, or whatever new scripting language Graal will use.

I think Graal could adopt a slogan like "Building an online game, anyone can do it!" and push the fact that people will be able to create their own world easily.

Quote:

Posted by Tizmiz (Post 765074)

Having a dedicated client for playing on Graals IOS/Android servers, rather than playing through Facebook or Graalonlines website

This^

Quote:

Posted by WaFFL3Cake (Post 765633)

I think a nifty server idea would be one that focuses on combat between two opposing teams. My vision is there are two kingdoms, lets say an east and a west kingdom. You start in a some sort of dmz or "neutral territory". You can enlist to be a soldier of either kingdom, and you cant switch (unless if you pay a fine or something that wouldnt allow players to swap teams easily, or make them want to swap teams at least).

The main goal would be to promote loyalty and nationalism, so pvp between the two sides as well as building a strong community within each kingdom are two key factors. I think it would be cool if the economy of each kingdom is affected, to some degree, by what the players do. For example, if there's a tower that's held by one side for X amount of time, the kingdom gets a reward. This could be a new item, prize money, etc. There could also be player-made shops that would be expanded based on popularity. If players in your kingdom buy your stuff, you can eventually sell more items or something.

I don't know. It sounds really ambitious even though I didn't say much, but the basic idea is to build two separate communities on the same server that compete to be better than the other

This also sounds awesome but probably won't happen

An actually useful and useable dungeon generator. The one that's available now is literally a command line thing that gives you the option to either A- generate levels in a highly inefficient manner or B- press a key to automatically generate a freakin minotaur's lair complete with a distinct lack of rhyme or reason in it's design.

Quote:

Posted by Vladamir Blackthorne (Post 766135)

I wasn't aware that there was a dungeon generator, but I disagree that there should be one at all. It sounds like if all servers or "worlds" used this, they would be too similar as opposed to starting from scratch and carefully crafting it themselves.

GraalOnline Playerworlds supported for mobile!
(I know they're working on it)

Quote:

Posted by WaFFL3Cake (Post 766158)

Let me clarify. Graal Kingdoms used it, a long time ago. It was used to make large levels, such as the old underground dungeons and the castles for each kingdom. The castles were... ok I guess. They were generated with special parameters and were further edited afterwards to clean them up and add more complex things to them that the dungeon generator couldn't do, such as bakeries and blacksmithing areas.

The underground dungeon, on the other hand, was an absolute mess. It was generated with no parameters, it was a literal maze with no purpose.

Adding parameters and seeds and all that just is far too difficult and there wasn't any sort of interface. It just ran in a command prompt and you press a key, which makes it generate a level with what ever various text files, images and tilesets you gave it.

So, if it were improved to actually be user friendly and not a nightmare of a proprietary program that Unixmad designed so he didn't have to work too hard with creative stuff and could focus on programming, it could be used to create very large levels in a short period of time, which could then be tweaked and refined to perfection.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not hating on the game in any way, I played the everloving crap out of it. But tough love must be given.

I think the problem now, with new players/returning old players is the confusion over the fragmentation, and the business model as a whole. I tried to get back into GraalOnline only to be told I only had so many hours available (What is this, AOL?). Well, I get on servers only to find them ghost towns. Then I find there is a "facebook" version, and an iOS version. These don't seem to be the same. What? They seem to be using the F2P model, bustling with players! So many players that the client lags from all the sprites! The Windows client is not using this model. What is this PC port then?? The dying remains of the old servers? Servers I'm expected to pay for, if I may add?

In case I'm not 100% clear on my last paragraph the branding is absolutely confusing - Graal should be Graal. Graal Era makes enough sense, but you have "Graal", "GraalOnline" and "Graal Classic", and I have no idea if they're the same thing, or different! I check the windows Graal EXE and I'm asked for a password - I don't even remember setting one, and most of my recent progress was in the facebook version - which is nowhere connected to the EXE version. (This isn't obvious, by the way.) I type in "the code" in the server list like I'm supposed to for classic, and... I log on and only one person is connected along with me, and he's AFK. I'm having... not fun.

Knowing that I was supposed to type in that keyword in the server box is not common knowledge. It's nowhere in any sticky, or FAQ, None that I could find. I had to message an admin to get this information. Not good! I don't even know if I'm supposed to be sharing that information, given how hard it was to even get it in the first place!

Looking at the "official" graalonline forums, I see entire subforums that haven't been posted in in 4 years. buried in those forums are answers I couldn't find from google. Some posters are wondering where the admins are. This looks SO BAD for someone casually browsing material for the game they saw their friends play on Facebook. If we need these souls on the PC servers, as it is, it's not clicking.

I was so confused over the organization of this game that I was at a point of giving up completely. This must be addressed. As it is, it's a confusing mess with no easy way to navigate through any of it. Of course these are "noob" issues, but if an oldbie coming back from ages past is having trouble navigating through this, just imagine how a true newbie feels.

To make things worse: After hours of googling, I found this: http://i.imgur.com/txIn9mN.png

What is this? is THIS the graal I remember? with missing images? Was dust blown off these pages before the server sent them to me? And to top it off:

"Without Gold membership, you can only play 5 hours per month."

With ZERO players? uh-uh.

Here are my suggestions to fix this mess:

One: F2P the whole blasted thing. People will buy items in game for VIP island loot. Those lazy bones will buy gralats(gelats?) with real money. The WoW subscription model worked back in the day, but it's a disaster compared to the way games are expected to operate today. And before you ask: Yes, I do Android dev for F2P games, these suckers will pay out the nose - so will PC players. Especially since I can give as much as I want to the development and upkeep of the servers by my purchases. It may have felt unethical back in the day to "tempt" players to pay for items, but now that it's common, just go for it! Those that have to till the soil for gelats can still do what they do, and those who pay can get an easy ride. Their choice.

Two: Clean up the website. Get rid of the outdated information. This isn't a crazy request, it's just what's expected on a bare minimum.

Three: If Staff is that stretched thin for the PC port, make the PC port work with the Facebook port servers. If the rumors I read about broken editing tools are true, we have a much bigger problem, don't we?

Four: Don't expect Facebook players to pay for "gold" membership with a ration of 5 hours per month if they don't. They will flee without a second thought and go to peggle or something. I've seen it happen in other mobile games with my own eyes.

Five: Keep in contact with players and keep them engaged. I'm seeing that on the facebook port, which is good, but the PC port is crickets. seeing official news posts from 2012 on the main page also looks bad, it's 2017 now.

Of course, this is some old geezer's opinion. :)

Quote:

Posted by Sneakernets (Post 766385)

This is the best advice I've seen in ages. Thank you for this. I agree with everything you've said, and Alpho, I hope you see this post.

Quote:

Posted by Basi (Post 766393)

This is the best advice I've seen in ages. Thank you for this. I agree with everything you've said, and Alpho, I hope you see this post.

I'm happy he's here to give these ideas. It's important that we work together to come up with new things. We are a community of creators.

Quote:

Posted by Sneakernets (Post 766385)

Useful and informative post.

Quote:

Posted by Alpho (Post 766395)

I'm happy he's here to give these ideas. It's important that we work together to come up with new things. We are a community of creators.

Echo's some of my thoughts that I have previously expressed in places such as here:

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...46#post1739346

But then I was recently told that it was not considered worth renovating/re-marketing the current website/client while PC Graal is in its current state, and that it would be preferable to deal with this after the new client :shrug:.

for the loginserver on pc, have it list all servers (unless the owner wants it hidden and staff only) and have a configuration option for the server to show up in a work in progress category.

When you minimize the client, maximizing it should work properly instead of turning the window black