But that's the whole point. You hit people to prevent them from moving the big magnets. The small ones, you can sword spam 4-5 times instead of pushing.

I agree, the defenders should not be scot-free from having to deal with the tower mechanics. However, there is a dilemma when attackers and defenders are using the same paths: blocking the center/most-direct path not only inhibits attackers, but also inhibits defenders from getting to the flag; therefore, neither will want to use mechanics to block off paths (this is the fatal flaw the first "crystal" layout had, because blocks completely surrounded the door).

So the key is to design a layout where both attackers and defenders have an invested interest in using the mechanic because: (a) if the switch is 'on' attackers will have a slight advantage and defenders will have a slight disadvantage, and (b) if the switch is 'off' attackers have a slight disadvantage and defenders have a slight advantage.

When you have two guild of equal numbers, ultimately the primary factor of towering is the disparity in respawn distances between attackers and defenders. Basically what these new mechanics are doing is making these respawn distances a little bit dynamic.

Attacker/defender respawn distance to both the flagroom door and the switch mechanic are important to balance. If there is a large difference in respawn distance to the flag, defenders will easily keep the fort. Likewise, if the switch mechanic is very close to the defender respawn, then defenders will have a strong control over the switch. If the switch mechanic is very close the the attacker respawn, then attackers will have a strong control over the switch.


-----


Now speaking in a larger context as far as NGS™ is concerned, and a little speculation about how the stuff tested in BoxFort™ might be used;

what if the ngs releases on the same day the old system was abolished? (aka my birthday may 31st yesSSS)

well, happy early AF birthday then

Feedback:

"I think the obstacles were a good way to set up the fort tbh" Rina
"I actually love it, something new pretty breath is taking" -Lilith
"It is the worst tower out of every design, it needs every improvement, it is not a bad idea but things like where the defending spawn is-really making it easy to defend the fort"- Scooby
"I like it! dislike how close spawn is for defenders though" - AlexJenova
"I thought it was boring and constantly having to run into the magnet was annoying more than a fun time. If you have a lot of members, it's easy to defend. If not, it's very easy to take"-Sun
"Spawn should be more lower so the defenders have to pass part of the obstacles like sardons, but stick to the box theme not into balls" -Moi19'
"It's too hard to take the tower when you have just few and it's very easy to hold with many people like they should add some balls to the spawn like in sards." Devo19'

I personally thought that this tower isn't bad, if you're a defender, you'll definitely have fun :D if not, you won't have as much fun. I like the fact that you're also capable of moving the obstacles by swinging at them, not just pushing them. This will prevent the defenders from spamming their sword.
What I've noticed:

• The left spawn isn't working.
• The defenders are not using the obstacles in the bottom part of the fort. (Where the big two obstacles are)
• As shown in the picture, this obstacle was the most well positioned one. If it's in this direction like shown in the picture, you're going to lose the tower unless if you managed to push it quickly with another player. Although defenders are capable of hitting the attackers from the top, attackers are still capable of pushing this big obstacle by pushing the bottom balls.
• Players dont get send back to their spawn (cells) after they lose the tower

Since the defenders/attackers are not using the obstacles in the bottom of the tower, you might need to re-consider changing the obstacles positions (the ones in the bottom of the fort)
I would also say you need to re-consider the defenders spawn because, in my opinion it's very close to the flag room.

Again, thnx to everyone who participated in the fight!

I regret announcing this on the server, now way too many players are occupying the tower right now. If you're serious about towering and testing out the tower, I highly suggest waiting for the mass of players to leave.

However, Box Fort™ has undergone another swap! Don't quite enjoy the simplicity of taking a flag? Maybe try an alternative method!
http://i.imgur.com/ST6D19s.png

So does the cart of rubies heal or damage the flag by a large amount?

Huge fan of Shilvershards Mine battleground on WoW which is somewhat similar tactics from what I can see, two teams fight for control of mine carts and when it reaches the end whatever team has it gets points.

From what I can see, I think if the cart hits the flag they lose HP and if the defenders hit the cart it moves back more? Hard to tell because it's very crowded.

Would love doing it with two teams when it isn't overly crowded.

It's a cart of TNT.

To be honest, I couldn't figure out how the mechanics work because of the crowndess.
Anyways, On Sunday at 3pm EST, I will be hosting a third towering fight. However, the date/time might change if Dusty isn't capable of attending. I will be recruiting for two teams, 10-15 members. Pretty much the same as last times, feel free to pm me in-game for more details or for a request to join. Unfortunately, I had to reject some players from giving them a tag in the last towering fights. I'm not trying to be rude but, the whole point of me creating those towering fights so, us as players will be capable of giving useful feedback and so Dusty can see how skilled players use the new mechanics. I apologize in advance if I don't recruit you. I'm not going to do any recruitments, as long as you have experience in towering which can be proven by the amount of your player kills or, the 1k towering hats then you're good to join.
An example of a player that I may accept: someone with 40k players kills and one 1k hat.
The date/time will be found in my status once Dusty gives us the green light :D

I think 300HP is way too much for the flag. I believe 200 should be realistic.

Can probably show up this time if I'm not busy and don't forget, this design sounds really fun.

Love the design the most, gives a really nice feeling, IMO it would be cool to test out a bigger flag with way more HP like 400 since the cart takes 200HP off

bring back mounts on towers

the cart took 70 off for me

@Dusty, there's an issue with going down the stairs after spawn (attackers). It doesn't let me walk down, keeps going in an endless loop

I don't like this new layout at all, Dus! I'm sorry! I can't understand it and I don't want to neither. Is it a pk zone?

Each bomb placed in the cart gives another 100HP damage

I'm enjoying this one. Keep it.

It's an interesting concept. The track seems to be very long, which takes the focus off of the cart, but also creates a situation where the cart is integral in knocking the flag down. If the timing is poor, it's another 5-10 minutes of pushing the cart along to get another chance. When it comes to the movement of the cart, the lag is extremely frustrating. Additionally, it's not super clear to me why hitting the cart 'back' down the track has so much more of an effect than hitting it forward.

Flag health is ok, but I feel like there should be incentive to hit the cart into the flag one time, then have some attackers after the flag and have a second hit with the cart to take out the flag. With the current length of the track, this becomes impossible.

Also, needs indicators over the heads of the defenders.

Seems unbalanced overall. Easy for defenders. Maybe in future iterations there could be a shorter track and less open space.

It's going to be on Saturday because, unfortunately Dusty won't be available on Sunday. I know GST is on the Saturday too so, it will start at 12:45pm EST and finishes at 2. If the time is changed, I will write the new one in-game status before Saturday.
Note: The last two fights I created were fun yet, this one will be the most enjoyable! So, don't tell me you will be busy with gst, it will finish an hour before gst start.

It's not an interesting concept at all, it's just a good place to pk. Lol I can't imagine myself pushing a cart for 10 minutes. From what I've seen, that cart is extremely slow lol. Given that I can't spar cause the server is too laggy and then those nubs thinks they pro when they aren't, I'm gonna pk soon! I think server should be fixed, dus!

New one reminds me of the Team Fortress 2 Payload gamemode. http://i.imgur.com/uo8TyXd.png

If this happens to you attempt to go down slower, that's solved the issue for me. You'll get thrown back once, but then should be able to sprint through the second time if you're quick.



Agree with most of this, especially with the track being too long. However, I think there is a way to preserve the track at it's current length; you could add little switch, which when activated cuts the track length down. Maybe something like here: Attachment 24256

If you then had a switch that could set the cart on that path instead, it would shorten the field and make the defenders make another choice; namely, should they defend the cart or defend the switch?

but that's just an idea. You could also increase the cart speed for a simpler solution. Because at the moment the cart hasn't been defended that much as isn't providing the attackers with much of a boost over "Sprint at the flag!".

There were actually switches already designed, scripted and implemented. There was even an alternative fort layout utilizing them.
http://i.imgur.com/5G5Ec3o.gif
However, there was an issue in that the minecart travels in directions: forwards and backwards. When you introduce different paths that means when the minecart backtracks over a junction that has since changed, then goes past it again after it has changed AGAIN it introduces a situation where suddenly the minecart will be going backwards instead of forwards. See this example:
https://i.imgur.com/vdzPgob.png
So attackers trying to get the cart to go towards the flag will actually cause it to go back to the start. There are fixes, but it involves pathfinding and that's just not something I can implement in such limited time.

In other news:

• Fixed issue with the cart sometimes not blowing up at the flag and changing orientation(attacking it caused it to go back to the start instead of towards the flag).
• Defender indicators should now display, and be more accurate overall.
• Tweaked damage output when the cart reaches the flag. It will not outright destroy the flag at full capacity.

New tower is great, but to me the rail seems a bit long

Another successful host!
Thanks to everyone who participated and gave feedback! Again, I really enjoyed the battle and gave me more understanding of the tower's mechanics. I will post the players feedback in quotes. If some of the feedback has no quotes, this Means i've re-worded them so they can make sense. I will say my own feedback at the end.
There is no blocks in the town or paths, it's very easy to make your way to the flag as an attacker. -Rexxx
It would be better if the flag wasn't in this position so it can be harder to the attackers to take over it. -Shinobi
"2 bugs, 1 the non pvp area (above minecart and spike crossing the railroad), the layout is okay, like the minecart idea but it some what fits underground so there is no need for the outside to look like a tower (my opinion since you can see the top of every other tower) would like a little more obstacles that's all."-Moi19
"I think the explosives should re spawn faster, and the flag health should be lowered to make it easier" -Bea
"It's alright, it really made us work as a team but I still somehow prefer the older layout"-Lilith
"I think it's pretty unique, the explosive system thing is pretty cool. I think the flah should be in a separated room in my opinion." -cheche*
"Too long railroads. Add switches to shortern the distance"- Vento
"Definitely the spikes needs to be balanced" -Nine entrus
More spikes near flag area. I realized that to get the cart back to where it was u have to pk the ppl since the cart is automatic there should be like a certain amount of hits that the pker can do to make the cart move without anyone stopping it/blocking it. And, same thing applies to the defenders, they should be able to do certain amount of hits to make the cart move without anyone stopping it. So they wont have to kill/knock the people around the cart. - Lizz
"The long cart of the cart make it tedious and at one point of time we gave up on that idea and just headed to the flag instead. But I do like the idea that with the cart/bomb/flag, it separates the defenders and attackers into different areas of the tower" Dual
"The tower isn't good, there is barely any defense objects that would help the guild defend the fort and 300 is a lot"-rina

My own feedback (changes you can make/consider):

• Decrease the timer of the explosive re-spawner
• Add a third explosive re-spawner
• Is it possible to make the attackers work to earn the explosives? Rather than having to wait for the timer to finish. An example could be: hit 100 times to get a bomb.
• Having a switch to provide defenders more control over the cart.

The good side of the tower:

• The railroad is long enough to provide attackers the time to fill it in with explosives!
• The flag HP is perfect
• The attackers/defenders spawns are well positioned

Just an edit to my feedback^ - the length of the cart way made it*. My bad

The flag HP isn't perfect, are you drunk? 300 is way too much for that layout.

make it 25 health ;)

Yes I agree, this is why we suggested to add more explosives spawner and.. I meant to say the flag hp will be perfect if they make the cart more effective.


By the way, i'm not sure if this is a bug but, after you log/re-log inside the tower you get warped.

Yes, the track distance and flag HP could be adjusted to help balance it a little.
But over all the idea of the TNT cart is cool. Only thing is I don't like how it automatically starts rolling backwards. The defenders should have to do it themselves.

Also, it felt really laggy in there.. im pretty sure my framerate was lower when i was in there.

@Dusty, sometimes the cart does not move from its starting position. Been swiping my sword at it and doesn't budge from its spot.

Can anyone confirm if this 'Saeed' guy actually has a developer watching his event? Seems like complete bull sh*t and a plot to gain attention

No I think he is a normal player hosting an unofficial towering event and gathering feedback so he can share it with the real devs.

nice bombs

I'm positive his status said something along the lines of "a developer will be spectating."

I've come to the conclusion, you have a gambling addiction. Diceman.

By drawing attention to it, you are merely furthering his cause. If folks like that get ignored, they fade away pretty fast.

Because he contacted me when he organized the fight so I could spectate and make adjustments as the fights went on. He's not officially endorsed, but has been actively striving to help organize practically the only true comparisons to actual guilds using the tower. It's hard to make adjustments with designs when it's just a few single players trying to take the tower from an actual guild. So while not officially endorsed I do much appreciate the effort he's being putting into gathering valid feedback and putting the tower under more realistic circumstances.

Dusty is 2 for 5 for the layouts as of now since the other 3 has sucked.

Well All five layouts were realistic, non of them were over powered. Maybe this current layout requires few edits to make it less powerful to the defenders. But, in general all the layouts are perfect and well-designed. I'm sure those new mechanics going to make towering waaay more fun. It used to be really annoying to the attackers when they can only trade hits with the defenders while the defenders spam their sword in narrowed paths. I also used to hate when defenders spam their sword on the: attackers spawn, entrances to the upper floors and the entrance of the flag room. You can't even trade hits with them while they spam in those three positions. Finally, in those new layouts, you won't expect a victory by spamming your sword. You'll have to contribute with your guild members to defend/take over the tower. Excellent work by Dusty and the other developers that helped him (if they did). To be able to create such layouts, you'll need a wide imagination! i'm also exited to see all the towers getting updated. But, i'm a bit worried about the new guild system. It's hard to imagine guilds with an extended roster when you can't kick players or leave the guild as a member otherwise, "you'll lose points". I hope it works tho! :D

Box Fort has undergone one last change(for now!)
https://i.imgur.com/u7OWvrX.png
However I won't be on too much more today so any concerns and/or bugs may go unnoticed until tomorrow.

And don't worry, critique and input about the last fort mechanics have been read!

Attachment 24300

i smell pokemon

with it bouncing so much 150 HP is too much I think. With a lot of people it's alright, but when it's only 4-5 it's pretty annoying.

After some more testing and playing with it, I think it's a pretty nice layout. It's fun, has some gimmicks but is not dominated by them (unless you consider the moving flag a gimmick). I also would like to see players slide... It just feels wrong to not slide at all on a floor of ice.

Though I think players should get a blink when hit by the ice... Getting hit by an ice cube and then losing 1.5-2 health sucks.

• Ice Rocks need to spawn more or on a specific command.
• If there's ice on the floor, why aren't players sliding?

I was thinking you can have players shovel snow and it builds up as a mini barrier because there's nothing captivating for both attackers / defenders.

This is really damn fun! Would be 10x funner if it had pre-2012 speed ice skating as well.

With this layout I was able to single-handedly control the tower for a solid minute.

Great idea. The new layout is very fun. It has a war-like feel to it. Only note I have is that the ice blocks should spar more often.

So if this is the last layout, what will happen to Box Fort?

Good question. Is it going to be removed since the purpose of it is completed? Or will it become a permeant tower?