Ps actually did have subs, they just didn't have 5. when droo was leader we had 2 or 3. when droo gave the guild and it started switching amongst a bunch of people they got 5 subs.

Why is this discussion still going on?

I don't see a problem with it it is on topic.

only guild that reached 1k without any subs or without kicking and recruiting... was nobody. not yet atleast

If I'm correct, PULSE was probably the closest.

They noob recruited like no tomorrow.Watchu talkin' bout willis?

But they also had no subs for the best part of 2000 hours and had an incredibly strong backbone of mature, permanant, loyal members. Recruiting temps is how you hold forts. They're expendable.

Yes,We're talking about if there was ever a guild to have never noob recruited and just used the people they had.The only back bone they had and why they were so successful in tower taking were because of the noobs they recruited who asked to be recruited and then kicked right when they went offline.That's not something to be proud of tbh that's something to be ashamed of resulting to it is just pathetic.

pulse had 5 sub guilds lol

Most guilds do this with 1k plus tower hours, its quite efficient as people have different time zones. I don't see the problem with it, if it works then good for them. Plus I'm pretty sure the people who get kicked when offline aren't heartbroken when they find out, in fact they probably expect it.

If you want to get 1k hours with no temps and waste 5 years of your life then go for it, i would recruit temps, it doesn't show weakness at all. In fact if you are a tower guild and don't recruit temps you are not using your resources. Lastly about the guild loyalty, there are two options. Make a it so you can only join one guild, and if you leave you cannot join another guild for a week. This would stop guild hopping alltogether. If that's a bit to extreme then just make the ability to join 2-3 guilds, but keep the 1 week affect, if you keep that no matter which route you take you will not have guild hoppers and if you do only a few.

Alternatively, guild leaders could start employing standards. That requires no staff input.

What kind of standards?

No multiguilding.

Agreed with all of this. On fb server, 85% of those people who are experienced, just join one guild from the next to get 1k hats. Most of the people who were in Certified before they went 1k went to Tandoku. Tandoku's gonna get 1k next week (no sh*t) and then most of the members are going to make Trill dominant and then who knows what guild they'll join next for a 1k hat? It's annoying....
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Kinda off subject but oh well. There are ALMOST no real guilds on fb server. There's a few.

EDIT: To get on subject, i'm just gonna say a couple guilds that did pretty well with no or almost none subs.
RiCE KiNGS
Pandemonium
iBall
zZ FATAL Zz (I think they had like 2 subs when they were on iPhone server)
NkA
Nerv Guild War

Just to name a few.