You're missing my entire point. Me asking someone to tell me what Trump's stances where was rhetorical. Because some people keep saying how they are solid yet aren't saying what they are. And he's been caught in so many lies, and has changed his stances constantly I don't even think they know what his stances are.

Essentially it was bait, and you fell for it. GJ.

You're probably gonna complain that I'm not providing citation for all this stuff (even though of course, you can just google, since you've proved you're so very capable of that) here's an example of Trump blatantly lying to his supporters.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnpO_RTSNmQ&t=14m44s

If you're on mobile skip to 14:44. Can't find the source to that video anymore.

http://www.bizjournals.com/tampabay/...a-appeals.html

You're probably gonna use the same excuse that all candidates are liars, so do me a favour and find one scenario where Bernie Sanders was caught in a lie. I'm serious too. If you can I would very much love to see it.

No you don't.


That becomes your problem because you don't know how taxes work. There's tax brackets for a reason. If you make 400k you will pay the same amount of taxes as a person that makes 20k a year(here's where knowing how taxes work helps) You will pay the same amount as he does for the same amount of money earned, but once you go pass the 20k mark the money you earn gets taxed at higher brackets. I believe there's 7 brackets, so the top earners(250k I think) get taxed at 7 different rates.



You're already "paying for everyone else" Who do you think pays for the salaries of government employees?

You do realize that YOU payed for all the bailouts the government gave to all those companies that "were to big to fail"(you know the ones filled with people working for their own benefit) The same ones that gave that bailout money to themselves for performance bonuses.

Here's something that will blow your mind, there's way more people living with <100k salaries than >100k salaries and here's the big shocker those are the ones paying for "everyone else" Those drive the welfare system, medical, and cash aid programs. Not you Mr. Bill Gates. :D


The thing that Fulgy aka Bill Gates doesn't understand is that the real individuals(the rich) that would be affected by sanders policies would never let him win and not his vote for trump.


Fulgy is clueless. His whole ideology is based on the belief that sander supporters are lazy bums that want everything given to them.



lol calm down warren buffet jr



I don't see it as raised taxes, but more of paying their fair share. When I say fair share I mean earned money to taxes payed ratios.



Yeah, right, filter the good ones from the bad ones. Spend all this money to get them out just to let them back in. How would they be allowed back in legally? There's a reason people come here illegally, think about it and then you can see the insignificance of his "support" for allowing them back in.

I completely agree with this. It's true that not everyone has an equal opportunity, and if that were the case wouldn't everyone be a millionaire? With people like Trump saying how measly one-million dollars is to him I don't see how people like him could mind. Unless of course he is a liar. Imagine that though?

If you don't want your taxes to be increased then how about don't become a millionaire? Easy.

Didn't say I agreed with the idea; he has no way of getting them out in the first place. I think its significant because it gives a better idea of how he feels about illegal immigrants, shows that he doesn't think they all are a bunch of criminals who need to be banned permanently from the US.

I don't understand how any human being with the United States' interests in consideration can disagree with that, nor do I understand how anyone can be against even the idea of building a protective wall to make it more difficult for illegals from Mexico to enter the US

Truly amazing to me that people have brainwashed themselves to think that these are bad things

It's not a terrible idea, but I have yet to see how anyone plans on making that happen. Considering it's going to take a lot of time to deport everyone individually.

Damn.

Building a wall is going to make it harder but it isn't going to stop illegal immigrants from trying to come over.

Ever seen World War Z?

That's going to be the US in a couple years after Trump builds his wall and Mexico and SA do nothing.

Whatever needs to be done to keep illegal immigrants from coming over needs to be done by the governments where they come from.

Life is **** down in Mexico and SA compared to that in the US, do you honestly think their citizens would be desperately trying to escape to here if it wasn't?

Implying it's actually going to be possible for him to build it?

Oh no doubt.

Building the wall will create jobs and that's kind of a big deal.

#JohnKasich2016

Not sure what exactly you think just happened. I provided a list of his political ideals, and you replied saying that he has changed his opinion a few times.

If someone is a trump supporter and they don't know what his policies are they are an idiot, just like I'd say a sanders supporter is an idiot if they didn't know what his policy is. I'm sticking to what I said, his policies aren't some secret that he regularly switches to trick people into voting for him. All you need to do to know what he believes is to regularly watch/read the news, which is something you should be doing if you are voting anyway.

Your "bait" is garbage and doesn't prove anything besides that I (a registered democrat) doesn't pay attention to everything Trump says.


Also, sorry, maybe Sanders' lies aren't as harmful as Trump's, but he ain't a saint.
http://www.politifact.com/personalit...yruling/false/

Well, it isn't, and it isn't our problem.

Again, this isn't our problem. Mexico needs to get their **** together. The Middle East does, too. We need to stop wasting time and resources trying to stabilize areas that don't want to be stabilized. We just get ****ed in the end. I'd like to be selfish and look out for ourselves for 4 or 8 years.

The people whining about Trump wanting to stop illegal aliens from illegally coming here are the insane ones, not him. Americans have been softened and sensitized the point where it's "racist" or "bad" to want to protect our country's interests. That's stupid.

And he lied, multiple times.


No, maybe not you specifically, but some people in this thread, and even one of my best friends doesn't actually understand what Trump's stances are and still trash-talk other candidates while Praising Trump.

These are kinda misleading and are opinionated. For example

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-me...ountry-capita/

Yes, he said we spend twice, but it's true that we do spend significantly more on healthcare. It was just a mistake. Not a lie.

Yes it does and that was the point of my reply. He knows how hard it will be for them to come back, so that's the only reason he "supports" them coming here legally. That's not even taking into consideration of any new requisites added to the process.




Brainwashed? lol yeah buddy. We should build a wall around fl too, so we can keep the cubans away. all they need to do is touch land and they good. Where do the chinese get smuggled in from? lets build a wall there.


Let me see.
Take fulgy's taxed money to build a wall that will do very little to slow down border crossings. Let me introduce you too the cartel tunnels and hidden compartments in vehicles. I'm sure they could start going through Canada or even better, go to Cuba and then go through Fl.


The real people going against the US's best interests are the sander haters that want to allow the rich to keep hiding their money while the middle class takes on the burden of paying for the real free loaders.

Well it is more of a fact checking site. I totally agree with you about Sanders being pretty clean compared to other candidates though.

However I'd say the site is rather unbiased. You can look at what they have on other candidates as well; but it does suit your view on Trump rather well.

http://www.politifact.com/personalit...ng/pants-fire/

Precisly.

Only, it becomes our problem when nobody else does anything about it.

I really think the whole idea of immigration isnt as much as a domestic policy than it is a foreign one.

All these countries need to work something out before one of them loses their ****.

Yeah I'm not saying the site was biased, I'm just saying it wasn't a good example.

I'm just disappointed that finally an honest candidate that refused to be backed up and bought with Super PACs is being ignored by people like Donald Trump supporters, where Trump has been caught in lies.

Im afraid Bernie is right about when he says the election is about who can raise the most money.

@GOAT

I'm not going to say sorry to you because I'm lucky enough to come from wealth, that isn't something to apologize for. I also don't understand why it has become the trend to view anyone with wealth as evil and greedy. My parents both were raised on farms before moving out, and worked very hard to earn the money they do now, and I'm incredibly proud of it. I refuse to be shamed into another stance because I'm viewed poorly for coming from wealth. I value working hard for money, not giving it to people, hence why I want to create jobs instead of welfare handouts, hence Trump. And I only voted Trump because Rubio and Kasich don't really have a chance. (Rubio was still in when I voted a few days ago).

Where are you getting welfare handouts from? Again, you seem to be talking about something you don't know enough about. Bernie Sanders wants to create more jobs, and he has plans on how to get the funding for that.

Was not quoting you or anything about Bernie on that last comment, though I admire how eager to just attack / argue you are. (probably not attack but I figured I'd leave the option open)

Either way, it's as Thallen said earlier, discussion on Bernie is pointless because he lost already.

Still doesn't explain where the hell welfare came from.

Im pretty sure most people here cant even vote anyway sooooo

Take a look at the history of Democrats and social aid programs. Wasn't talking about Bernie in specific, but it is quite clear which of the 2 parties is in favor of these kinds of handouts. Pretending they don't exist is just ignorant, as welfare at this point in time is starting to edge on dependency for some, no doubt.

The reason welfare exists is because there aren't enough jobs. I understand you say Donald Trump wants to create more jobs, but not only does he not know how he's going to do that, he says he wants to take jobs from china,



when his own clothing is manufactured in China. Something he could easily move over here. He isn't saying what's true. He's saying what you want to hear. Hell, I don't think he even wants to create better paying jobs. I could see him just wanting presidency to increase his profit, as crazy as that sounds.

I don't see Hillary or Bernie wanting to increase welfare. I see them wanting to create better paying jobs. Let's be honest, they are the only possible choice for the Democratic party.

So let me ask again, where did the welfare part come from?

The same people saying he has already lost are the same people saying he wasn't going to make it this far. It's not true.

Hillary, for one, has championed welfare reform for longer than I've been alive. So there is that.

Regarding your point about Trump's business. Of course his stuff is made in China. It's a good business decision to do it, and he'd lose money otherwise. This is why Trump knows best how to stop certain things that businesses do that lose American jobs. An example is the H1B reform to bring more jobs back to US workers. He has also talked about removing the tax loopholes that big businesses use to avoid the taxes. These are good things.

And I'll make a large bet with anyone that Sanders does not win the nomination.

With all this said, I think I'm going to forgo this thread until the primaries are over, and then come back for all the Trump vs. Hillary comments. Was good discussion.

They key word is reform.

That's what he is. A businessman. Not a politician. If he honestly gave two ****s about our jobs he would be producing them in America, since as he has said that he has more money than he knows what to do with.

Why can't you see that he's part of the ****ing problem? That's like asking a crimelord to join the FBI since he knows how to stop crimes.

Everyone talks about three crappy candidates that the media loves to cover. Hillary is a criminal who is still in big trouble for the server scandal. And yes it IS a big problem. Sanders in a freaking socialist, and when you ask his supporters what socialism is they have know idea. If you support Sanders then I recommend you do a bit of reading on both socialism and what Sanders wants. Trump, I hardly have to say anything since he's an idiot that says the same thing all the time. Listen to him sometime, he says "it's gonna be great" "you'll love it" and other lines but NEVER tells you details.

For me, I'm all for Cruz right now. He has the best chance of beating trump and if you read into his story you'll understand why he'd make a great president! That's my rant, just got tired of seeing ignorant/uninformed people voting for three trash candidates.

Bernie wants to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour which I don't agree with. Companies can't keep all of their current employees while doubling their pay. Unemployment will go up due to the increased number of lay offs and small businesses will die out, which is ironic since he's all about cracking down on big companies and helping small ones.

Democratic Socialist. His views are very different from the standard definition of socialism. Maybe you need to do some research yourself.

I don't think his intentions are to just bump up the minimum wage asap, because as you said that would be a terrible idea. I think what he means is he wants to create a society where 15 dollars minimum is ideal and possible.

That's the sad part. This is why this country will never be great again. At the end of the day the rich will continue to run this country whether republicans or democrats. The rich will keep getting richer and the poor will get poorer.


Let's do that.
The guy that started a lot of these social aid programs("handouts') was FDR(maybe your grandparents benefited from these "handouts"), a Democrat, BUT those democrats shared a lot of the ideologies/ideas of today's republicans.

Do you know why they were started? Oh yeah that small thing that happened in the 20's. Do you know why the depression happened? Yeah a free market with very little government intervention. <-- Who's for that in this thread?


If the depression wouldn't have happened you would be voting democrat today fulgy. So a president with todays republican views started these social aid programs. To help starving white folks. They didn't start to help illegals.

All that wealth and you still haven't taken a political science class? You should, good stuff.





Agree, but I wouldn't be surprised if you believed illegal immigrants are the guilty ones. What is trumps solution to this? Deport Mexicans? lol What they need to do is change the system so people aren't allowed to abuse it.




You just going to keep taking L's bro. Just SA like Queen Sarah_:D

but ur points are all invalid because bernie already lost!!!34gfoinaodp3

But why would he want to? Trying to move low-paying labor force jobs here doesn't really help us. When Chinese workers are willing to work for the price of a latte, it doesn't make sense for him to move it back. If anything that limits the growth of his company, which hurts the better paying clothing designer jobs which are located here in the US.

Not defending Trump, but I completely agree with him leaving his factory in china.



While my state hasn't voted yet. It won't vote for a long time, to the point where the primaries may already be decided. I can say that I'll probably register independent. Seeing as no surviving candidate represents my views.

Yes, if you're trying to save money then it's an obvious choice, but Trump saying he has more money than he knows what to do with makes me question why he wants to outsource to China. Maybe it's possible that he's a greedy liar who doesn't actually have as much as he says he does, and doesn't care about how jobs are slowly disappearing.

Like I've said before, he may be a good business-man, but that doesn't mean he would be a good president.

If they pay better, exactly how is it going to hurt them?

Why wouldn't it be? The entire problem is that he's given the option of buying such cheap labor from China. He was a businessman before he became a candidate for president, and when you're running a business you're doing everything available to you to maximize profits and make your business successful. It'd be the same situation if Trump was using tax havens and other tax loopholes. Does he think tax loopholes should be closed? Yes. Assuming he's used tax loopholes before, which I'm sure he has, that doesn't make him a hypocrite in any way. He's being allowed to do it. He is saying you shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Pretty corny to use a Graal analogy, but it's like the current state of tower guilds. It's completely stupid, the cycle of reaching 1000 hours and then restarting as a new tag to re-obtain the 1000-hour reward. Does that mean I'm not going to do it? Hell no, it's the best way to achieve what you're after. It's just that it shouldn't work that way, I shouldn't be allowed to do it.

Raising the minimum wage to $15 is a terrible idea

ok lets settle this **** once and for all
he lists all his policies here
https://www.donaldjtrump.com/positions

thats all he gives a **** about, everything else is up to the states to decide.

then stop destabilizing them???

1. My question is, why would he want to? There is no reason for him to bring the factories here, for us or for him. Factory jobs are a no go, I posted about this earlier in the thread.

Unless you feel differently about those kind of jobs.

2. Jobs are not disappearing, I have statistics to back that up.
You misunderstood, I stated that if his profit margins decrease because he moves his factor work here, then there will be less high pay designer jobs. Which would be bad.

Of course higher paying jobs are what we want

**** off, its literally socialism just with democracy slapped on in front of it.

No. The government is still going to control the money. Hence the word democratic.

Link leads to nowhere, but I assume I know what you're talking about. The unemployment rate has reduced with that Muslim Terrorist Obama in office (although maybe indirectly), but unemployment is still a problem.

I don't get this analogy. You're saying something shouldn't be how it is, and how you aren't going to abuse it and people shouldn't be allowed to. That's exactly my point.

It would be like going to Soul of Ninjas and putting them in charge of redoing the guild system.

@everyone saying it'd be stupid for him to bring his production over to the states, that's why I keep saying he's a business man. Not a president. He has said that china is a huge part of our job problem, so essentially he is saying he is a huge part of the problem.

What makes you think he's going to move his production over to the states? Only if he gets elected? If he doesn't is he gonna keep it over in China as a way to say **** you?

he's doing what's best him for now and it is completely legal. but if he is in charge, he's going to fix that cus since he knows what the hell is up.

trump sounds alright, but one of his tax reduction proposal includes government or federal taxes. he said he's gonna track down all the tiny parts that is inflating or whatever and cut them out. now that sounds convincing, but can he really do it? does he know all the parts of the government when he is a businessman? im pretty sure government has like 1000 diff parts. is he gonna hire expert for that too?

Its not a 1000 different parts.

Well technically it is several parts but the president only manages a few of those parts.

The rest he can only influence or be influenced by.

Telling me Bernie is a DEMOCRATIC Socialist like that changes anything. I know what he stands for but you seem to not, otherwise you wouldn't really vote for him.

noone knows exactly what trump will do, his views have changed so much and he will keep changing when it benefits him. And don't say he's a great businessman, that just shows how ignorant you are. He inherited his money and nearly all of his businnesses and brands have fallen flat on their faces.

Outside of the US it sounds like whoever you vote for you will be ****ed (except bernie)

Gotta agree with Trump, if he didn't have his dads money, he wouldn't be anywhere near being rich.

As in, he sucks as both - business man and president.

I don't know about you guys, but if I was loaned 1 million dollars I probably wouldn't be rich right now.

I don't know about you guys, but if I was loaned 1 million dollars I probably wouldn't consider myself a businessman.

Just a guy who got loaned a million dollars.

I don't know about you guys, but if I was loaned 1 million dollars I probably wouldn't go around telling everyone I'm a self-made man where everyone else had the same opportunity but they're just stupid, where in reality I just inherited a lot.

Mind telling me what he stands for? Because you're right, I don't seem to know why he's so bad.

Ron White 2016
http://ronwhiteforpresident.com