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-   -   Apple In-App purchase refund (https://www.graalians.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14786)

Richard 01-29-2013 06:21 PM
Apple In-App purchase refund
 
During the next couple of days (maybe weeks) I will be researching what the App Store deems as 'fair' in terms of in-app purchases and modifying the behavior of what you expected to purchase and what was done to it weeks or months later.

I'm sure there's some sort of blanket provision in the agreement that says that developers are able to change the the item you've purchased but to what degree.. i'm not sure.

A word to the developer, STOP charging such a premium for the guns in-game and then nuking them months later. It's sloppy, irresponsible and reflects just how much thought and effort goes into the game; when it comes to the guns you guys are a mess.

I'm also actually surprised about just how passive everyone is on this subject.

lord greg 01-29-2013 06:36 PM
It's better that a few people get annoyed with their items being nerfed than the game being ruined forever

Richard 01-29-2013 06:38 PM
Should've been thought about before it was released greg.

It's called "planning".

And i actually know a couple of people who have spent over $100 on weapons, just to have them 'adjusted' days later. Not fair.

lord greg 01-29-2013 06:44 PM
I agree better planning is needed but they had to do something to fix the problems they had.

Richard 01-29-2013 06:51 PM
So.. what do you tell the people that spent over $50 on a gun expecting it to operate a certain way only to change it.

Its a can of worms that i don't think they want to open.

lord greg 01-29-2013 06:55 PM
Well they still own the item and it functions. It just stops them having an giant advantage over everyone else. So I don't think they should have to refund it all. But it is a dificult situation as whatever happens people will be annoyed.

Talon 01-30-2013 05:20 AM
Quote:
Posted by Richard (Post 289056)
Should've been thought about before it was released greg.

It's called "planning".

And i actually know a couple of people who have spent over $100 on weapons, just to have them 'adjusted' days later. Not fair.
"The best laid schemes of mice and men go often astray."

Even with careful planning, thought, and consideration, nothing on release can ever be balanced. Look at League of Legends, for example. Riot Games is one of the biggest game companies worldwide with entire teams to analyze new champions before they're released, put them into a beta stage, fix them again, yet there are still bi-monthly updates to overhaul many champions, even years after their release. Everything is always rebalanced - everything! - based on the community's feedback. No complex game can ever be 100% balanced - ever - and Era's poor pricing system (more expensive = more stats -??-) doesn't help the case at all.

islander13 01-30-2013 06:40 AM
I really want to know Apple thinks about this as well. I'll go ahead and do the same and do some research :D

Era News 01-30-2013 06:54 AM
I'm on Richards side on this

Quote:
Posted by lord greg (Post 289078)
Well they still own the item and it functions. It just stops them having an giant advantage over everyone else. So I don't think they should have to refund it all. But it is a dificult situation as whatever happens people will be annoyed.
That's not the point, I'm personally a sten user so I'm am outside party for this as I got it for free when events gave away guns. But the players only spent $50 on a gun to GET that giant advantage over everyone else, why do you think they would of wasted that money.

I actually think this counts as major fraud since your not actually getting what you paid for.

Jester Lapse 01-30-2013 01:05 PM
Deja Vu. This topic is nothing new, I remember a thread going on for pages and pages about how so and do was going to sue era blah bleh. Didn't work out too well for them I don't think.

Ghettoicedtea 01-30-2013 04:46 PM
._. If this happened i could get a bucket load of money from thi saying that all the guns i never used anymore were nerfed and say that i used it. If anything this would be abused so no

lord greg 01-30-2013 05:19 PM
Quote:
Posted by Era News (Post 289471)
I'm on Richards side on this



That's not the point, I'm personally a sten user so I'm am outside party for this as I got it for free when events gave away guns. But the players only spent $50 on a gun to GET that giant advantage over everyone else, why do you think they would of wasted that money.

I actually think this counts as major fraud since your not actually getting what you paid for.
You do get it and it changes. That's like buying a car and after a few years it doesn't work properly and claiming it was fraud.

flamecrow 01-30-2013 05:24 PM
or buying an app in the appstore that gets a patch or update, and you not liking the new/modified app features.

Alpho 01-30-2013 08:07 PM
You guys are all stupid. Nothing will be changed.

Richard 01-30-2013 08:08 PM
Quote:
Posted by flamecrow (Post 289641)
or buying an app in the appstore that gets a patch or update, and you not liking the new/modified app features.
Most apps don't have a price tag of $90 or however much it costs for the bar or PBP. Which let me remind you is WAY out of the average price range of 1.99 for an app.

lord greg let me adjust what you said..
Quote:
Posted by lord greg (Post 289640)
You do get it and it changes. That's like buying a car and after a few years the car maker finds a defect in the car that would make them recall it.
Correct! And in that case the defect is replaced for free. I never bought that gun with the expectation of it being 'adjusted'.

BboyEatsbacon 01-30-2013 08:26 PM
Hmm, you might want to take a look at the terms of service and code of conduct.

Quote:
Posted by GraalOnline Code of Conduct
GraalOnline reserves the right to make modifications to any and all game content and rules at any time, without notice. GraalOnline has the responsibility to preserve the balance of the game for the majority of the players. Therefore, GraalOnline will routinely add new content, rules, modify existing rules, and even go back and change new content that did not function as expected. These changes can impact your character in a variety of ways. If you feel that the change unfairly penalizes your character, or your character type, given the requirements of balance, challenge, and the general good of the game, then you may make your views known to GraalOnline via GraalOnline Forum. It should be understood, however, that GraalOnline maintains a longer range view which may be in conflict with short-term and character-specific interests, but GraalOnline will always attempt to make the best decision for the overall good of the game.
Read it up at http://www.graalonline.com/docs/conduct?page=3#updates

You can not take this up any further than a thread because it would get no where. It's not like Eurocenter hasn't thought of this infraction before, therefore it is now stated in their CoC.

Richard 01-30-2013 08:39 PM
Thats fine 'bboy' what they did is a perversion of that clause. I'm not sure how they expect to get away with charging the amount they do and still keeping the agreement. At any rate iEra users do not login directly through the website so it's pretty easy to see how an average user would miss it, don't you agree?

And thank you, you already did part of my research for me.

islander13 01-31-2013 02:15 AM
Quote:
Posted by BboyEatsbacon (Post 289714)
Hmm, you might want to take a look at the terms of service and code of conduct.



Read it up at http://www.graalonline.com/docs/conduct?page=3#updates

You can not take this up any further than a thread because it would get no where. It's not like Eurocenter hasn't thought of this infraction before, therefore it is now stated in their CoC.
Ah, yes. Thank you for being the ONLY person to have actually provided a valid answer.

iHot 01-31-2013 02:22 AM
Quote:
Posted by Richard (Post 289042)
During the next couple of days (maybe weeks) I will be researching what the App Store deems as 'fair' in terms of in-app purchases and modifying the behavior of what you expected to purchase and what was done to it weeks or months later.

I'm sure there's some sort of blanket provision in the agreement that says that developers are able to change the the item you've purchased but to what degree.. i'm not sure.

A word to the developer, STOP charging such a premium for the guns in-game and then nuking them months later. It's sloppy, irresponsible and reflects just how much thought and effort goes into the game; when it comes to the guns you guys are a mess.

I'm also actually surprised about just how passive everyone is on this subject.
They're trying to make the game fair for everyone.

BboyEatsbacon 01-31-2013 02:24 AM
Quote:
Posted by Richard (Post 289721)
Thats fine 'bboy' what they did is a perversion of that clause. I'm not sure how they expect to get away with charging the amount they do and still keeping the agreement. At any rate iEra users do not login directly through the website so it's pretty easy to see how an average user would miss it, don't you agree?

And thank you, you already did part of my research for me.
The players do login straight through the website, as they login through an indirect subdomain (loginera1.graalonline.com). While the Code of Conduct is not displayed right in your face in iEra, you must still take it into account if you wish to bypass any kind of lawsuit or change to Eurocenter's ways. As they have it stated for all of GraalOnline, all players must abide to it, seen or not.

Richard 01-31-2013 02:51 AM
Im sorry.. Wha-? No you absolutely do not need to take anything into account. That's why companies display a terms and conditions statement for you to accept.

Who taught you business law?

Chris Zephlyn 01-31-2013 02:55 AM
Quote:
Posted by Alpho (Post 289701)
You guys are all stupid. Nothing will be changed.
:) Alpho just said it all in just 9 words.

BboyEatsbacon 01-31-2013 04:15 AM
Quote:
Posted by Richard (Post 289957)
In sorry.. Wha-? No you absolutely do not need to take anything into account. That's why companies display a terms and conditions statement for you to accept.

Who taught you business law?
Ya, thirteen and obv studied business law already....

Anyway, yes they display their TERMS but not their CoC. You can see the same for RuneScape and other major games.

Era News 01-31-2013 05:01 AM
Quote:
Posted by lord greg (Post 289640)
You do get it and it changes. That's like buying a car and after a few years it doesn't work properly and claiming it was fraud.
But in-game guns cant all of a sudden break down simultaneously, and this wasnt even a couple of years, more like a couple of months.

Quote:
Posted by flamecrow (Post 289641)
or buying an app in the appstore that gets a patch or update, and you not liking the new/modified app features.
That is the most invalid argument ive ever read, how can you compare a gun that was meant to be giving you an advantage over other players to another game.

Quote:
Posted by BboyEatsbacon (Post 289714)
Hmm, you might want to take a look at the terms of service and code of conduct.



Read it up at http://www.graalonline.com/docs/conduct?page=3#updates

You can not take this up any further than a thread because it would get no where. It's not like Eurocenter hasn't thought of this infraction before, therefore it is now stated in their CoC.
We could still argue that no where in game, not even a warning before buying the gun, it is shown.

Quote:
Posted by Alpho (Post 289701)
You guys are all stupid. Nothing will be changed.
Shut up and go make another unfair gang house.

VendettaDaOne 01-31-2013 10:00 AM
Quote:
Posted by Alpho (Post 289701)
You guys are all stupid. Nothing will be changed.
Generalizing? You sound so immature. And we are in a democraty, everybody is allowed to say their opinion without somebody calling them "stupid". It's funny how almost all your posts on graalians are negatives. I'm sure you'll be the person bringing Delteria down by your rude attitude.

LavaClaw 01-31-2013 11:05 AM
Quote:
Posted by VendettaDaOne (Post 290138)
Generalizing? You sound so immature. And we are in a democraty, everybody is allowed to say their opinion without somebody calling them "stupid". It's funny how almost all your posts on graalians are negatives. I'm sure you'll be the person bringing Delteria down by your rude attitude.
haha

Robert. 02-03-2013 05:33 PM
Quote:
Posted by VendettaDaOne (Post 290138)

Generalizing? You sound so immature. And we are in a democraty, everybody is allowed to say their opinion without somebody calling them "stupid". It's funny how almost all your posts on graalians are negatives. I'm sure you'll be the person bringing Delteria down by your rude attitude.
It's because some people dream too much...
You guys should think before posting stuff that will never happen.

xCLOSEx

flamecrow 02-04-2013 11:25 PM
Quote:
Posted by Era News (Post 290021)
That is the most invalid argument ive ever read, how can you compare a gun that was meant to be giving you an advantage over other players to another game.
You missed my point. My point is, a virtual good was purchased and later changed/altered.

However, if you really think about it..when players buy the gralat packs they are buying a consumable item. What they do with the gralats they purchased is now irrelevant because in apple's eyes you bought consumables (gralats) and not a non-consumable item (gun). Perhaps you may want to look into Apple's policy revolving virtual currency or intermediary currencies.

Quote:
Consumable
A consumable In-App Purchase must be purchased every time the user downloads it. One-time services, such as fish food in a fishing app, are usually implemented as consumables.

Non-Consumable
Non-consumable In-App Purchases only need to be purchased once by users. Services that do not expire or decrease with use are usually implemented as non-consumables, such as new race tracks for a game app.

teddy swag 02-06-2013 08:31 AM
2 say if there refund that going 2 be a scam 2 ez buy something and get ur money back done as simple

PoeticFolly 02-06-2013 09:07 AM
Although I think that they really should look into the guns a lot more before they release them, flamecrow makes a point. You're buying gralat packs. With that you can get whatever you would like. However, you aren't buying a gun. It's not possible to buy a gun with real money. Once you buy the gralat packs they're in your own hands to buy what you want. They didn't force you to buy the gun. I'll look more into the situation when I get home from school tomorrow.

Era News 02-06-2013 09:10 AM
Quote:
Posted by flamecrow (Post 293076)

You missed my point. My point is, a virtual good was purchased and later changed/altered.

However, if you really think about it..when players buy the gralat packs they are buying a consumable item. What they do with the gralats they purchased is now irrelevant because in apple's eyes you bought consumables (gralats) and not a non-consumable item (gun). Perhaps you may want to look into Apple's policy revolving virtual currency or intermediary currencies.
You just said it yourself, you can't possibly think that is fair on the hundreds of players your cheating out of cash.

PoeticFolly 02-06-2013 09:13 AM
Quote:
Posted by Era News (Post 294100)
You just said it yourself, you can't possibly think that is fair on the hundreds of players your cheating out of cash.
They CHOSE to buy them with gralat packs. If they had bought a gun a with real money then it was altered, graal wouldn't be in business.

blom98 02-06-2013 10:48 AM
The thing with nerfing and buffing is that it is very hard to make the gun "balanced" in a Graal perspectiv. If you nerf BAR people will get mad and want a refund. If you buff m4 (for example) then that gets to "OP" for its price. I personally want to refund quite a bit of items (including my bar) if you could get my real money back, but the thing that ive released compared to others is that it will never be a refund possibility.


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