Should an Admin be allowed to own a gang?
 

I think this could be a good debate.

Should an Admin be allowed to own and operate a gang, within the server they are administrating?


plz explain why or why not.

would like to hear everyone's opinons.

Why shouldn't they be allowed? its no harm for them to own a gang.

Of course, as long as they don't do it on their staff accounts then I don't see a problem with it.

I think so yes there is really no problem with an admin owning a gang :P but in some cases no

Lol at this....

i asked for explanations.

would it be fair if a referee played on a football or basketball team in the league they are a referee in? How about an umpire playing for a baseball team in the league they umpped for?

graal is very similar in the sense of the competition within the game. And an admin owning a gang is an unfair advantage to any one playing against them who isn’t on their team. The influence of an admin, especially PR who everyone sees the most, is an unfair advantage already that can be used against anyone they choose.

besides, you dont think they can play on one device while playing on their admin account , on a lap top or PC? and abuse powers through that account, while playing on the other? get real. Ask around...,

people have been "warned" multiple times for no apparent reason while basing against an admins gang. people have been dragged away from flag while attacking an admins base. people have been told that will not have a chance at being a PR if they are apart of the other's person gang that is attacking. Dont believe me? ask Layerd.

Not all admins will exploit this kind of abuse, but clearly some will and are capable of doing it.

It depends on the context.

I don't see a problem with any Admin running a gang, so long as they do not participate in any gang activities with their admin account. That alone is very irresponsible, and in some ways, an abuse of power.

Though, in the end, no admin should be running a gang.

Ohhhhh I see where you are going with this now lol. You don't want Hearts to be able to own a gang do you lol...

I don’t think any admin should be allowed to own a gang. 2nd account or not. The people running & administrating the game, should do just that, run and administrate the game, or be a player and play the game. Not both. too much power that can be abused while owning a competitive gang as an admin. compare it any other game anywhere in the world, in video games or sports, that you would think its ok that the officals, referees, admins, umpires, whoever runs the game and has powers that others dont, can actively play against you.

like i said before, your very naive if you believe an admin wouldnt play and base on one device, and be using their admin account, on their pc or laptop (or even another idevice) to abuse powers at the same time. especially if they are running a competitive basing gang.

That would not be fair.
P.S: No sir, you're not getting sK :)

LOL sorry Killa but you failed! John is right for one time in his life:( wow it's hard to say reality :( Lol and what you mean killa? U want sk? Or you want it to get disband? FAIL!

Staff are players too. Just saying. Why would staff be limited to the things they can do on a game that they help operate?

As long as there is no direct, absolute advantage over a player-run guild (there isn't), then staff-operated guilds gangs are fine.

lol if i wanted sK i wouldnt have given it back to hearts. but i should have disbanded it lol no, i dont want sk or want it disbanded, i didnt say anything at all about sk in this thread.

admins stick together, i understand that, especially ones who own gangs themselves.

^ refer to the above. and you do bore me.

BECAUSE THEY OPERATE THE GAME.

ONLY thing that would make it fair, would to not allow admin accounts to be on any gang tag ever, and that they cannot be on both accounts at same time. meaning if an admin is on one device's account(their non-admin account) basing, they CANNOT be logged into their admin account at the same time. it should be illegal, if its made illegal, then i would care less about them owning gangs.

As long as they're not using their admin powers to base I don't think it should be a problem (like staff boots, invincibiility, stuff like that). That's just my thought.

as long as they cant be logged into both accounts at same time. thats only way to make it fair. you shouldnt be allowed to be on admin account and be logged into another device basing at same time.

too much potential for abuse. ive seen it.

Hell, I remember when HomelessWitch would base with unreleased weapons and items. My opinion, no. They shouldn't be allowed to own a basing gang.

just another example of abuse.

most people who are voting on this poll arent into competitive basing or apart of those kind of gangs so its a non issue to them.

Yes I see your point. :P They shouldn't be able to base with both accounts at same time, if that's how I'm reading it right.

well just being logged on an "admin" account, for example, you can hide yourself in a base , invisible to all, and then use your say...iphone account, and base with that, while being logged into your admin account hidden. you can drag people away, you can scout and spy on other gangs inside bases, you can jail people or warn people for no apparent reason, using your admin account, while still using your iphone account to base.

if you dont think someone who owns and run a top 5 basing gang or bases competitively wouldnt use that to their advantage, well then your just crazy and naive.

It's a mixed debate.

I personally am ashamed of what sK and Hearts have come to when you two fought. She's resorted to abusing her warp powers to get her and her members into the flag room. It just ruins the whole concept and is absolutely despicable. When reported to Auron or snk they don't even reply.

Also Pixel Ravenix abuses his powers to help his gang dig. They'll go to a popular digging spot, and he'll warp away anyone who comes near. His excuse when caught was "the PKers are annoying"...

Lol. There is also the unstoppable advantage that several people will abandon their gangs just to be in an admin gang.


But I find no harm in gangs like Z-Room, Arnix, Ciprioni, and Caeser that are social. (Note: I do know that Z-Room has been passed on to a normal player.)

So it's a really tricky situation.
I'd have to say no to admins owning gangs though. Because when admins are caught abusing powers to help their gangs do things, they get a small wrist slap. Even if it's their 100th time caught.

I didn't say that they wouldn't do that, but it wouldn't be fair, you have your views on it and they're reasonable to why admins shouldn't have a gang, but if they're not using it for basing, with both accounts, then I don't see anything wrong with it. But of course, if they do what you said I'm sure they'll get fired :P and if they haven't, and HAVE done that, then that's unfair for everyone else who bases fairly.

I see you've thought about this quite a bit and I'm with you on the whole basing gang situation.

Admins are players therefore they have the right to own and run a gang. However they need to be put on a short leash and MUST base legitimatly meaning no bribing people to join and admin gives you a BAR or a ultra rare unreleased item, giving out guns for free to there gang, forcing people to join their gangs (alfonse did that to me once when i was taking his base), and no using admin to cheat in bases exp going into a base with 10k HP.

Pfft...Only try-hards go basing with 10k hp. It's called 0 hp and invincibility.

Oh i also forgot to add this to my list
NO FKING JAILING OR WARPING PEOPLE WHEN THEY SOLO YOUR BASE!!!!!!!!!!!!
that was specificaly towards celestial. Most abusive admins ever, i have been jailed by them 4 times for soloing them. Iceman gets jailed whenever he steps foot into base its actually funny.

your right, it is a tricky situation, and i maybe should have rephrased things a bit, there is no harm in owning a social gang or a pk gang or a fun gang, but to be an admin, and own an ultra competitive basing gang, and abuse powers to give you an advantage, they become almost untouchable in regard to any kind of punishment, especially if your good with the "higher-ups".

thats why i believe the inability to be allowed to be on both an admin account and be basing on another device at the same time would prevent any kind of abuse. As well as the inability to be on any gang tag when on admin account (they currently have the ability to put themselves on ANY tag they want). they should have to sign in or something so everyone is aware they are on their admin account so if they are on their other account they would be reprimanded.

How about instead we fire those fkers who abuse powers, bam problem solved

I have a bit more insight on this than most people, because i know what hearts could do and did as an admin when i was in sk, and they are the same things she does against me now that im against sk. plenty of people will verify those things (plenty who arent in my gang) . she is not the only admin to abuse powers, but she is a prime example of someone who shouldnt be allowed to operate a gang while being an admin, or be logged into both accounts at same time.

that works too.

I highly doubt that

It's a shame there are admins that would abuse the power they are given just for basing. However, not all admins should suffer for this.

I understand where you are coming from with this, there's always going to be that slight want from players about disbanding their gangs for a chance to join an admins, it's the same with guilds on iClassic and im sure it is the same with squads on iZone.

The fact is though, admins were first and foremost players so they have just as much to play the game as you do. It's not fair to them to stop playing the game they enjoy just because administrative responsibility has been bestowed upon them.

I thought of a concept for this... a man is trying to become world famous from his job, he might be an actor or whatever.. he has friends, family, loved ones etc. This feat actually happens and he becomes world famous, everybody knows him, loves him etc. but does he still not deserve the privacy or to keep what he has with friends just because he has become famous? (I think this concept works... :P)

It's a shame there are admins that would abuse the power they are given just for basing. However, not all admins should suffer for this.

I understand where you are coming from with this, there's always going to be that slight want from players about disbanding their gangs for a chance to join an admins, it's the same with guilds on iClassic and im sure it is the same with squads on iZone.

The fact is though, admins were first and foremost players so they have just as much to play the game as you do. It's not fair to them to stop playing the game they enjoy just because administrative responsibility has been bestowed upon them.

I thought of a concept for this... a man is trying to become world famous from his job, he might be an actor or whatever.. he has friends, family, loved ones etc. This feat actually happens and he becomes world famous, everybody knows him, loves him etc. but does he still not deserve the privacy or to keep what he has with friends just because he has become famous? (I think this concept works... :P)

this doesnt apply to what im talking about. im talking about abuse of powers and the advantage an admin has, owning a gang and basing competitively, over those other non-admin gangs.

if admins are allowed to own gangs, fine. but there is NO REASON at all, they should be allowed to be on both accounts (admin and non-admin) at same time and no reason any admin should be allowed to be in a gang (ANY GANG) WHILE ON an admin account.

make that illegal, boom, no abuse.

I agree with this in a way, sure I'm all for a social owner or just to have fun but competitive leaves room for the temptation which was done so by celestial in the past while fighting them.

Another admin vouching for another referring to John may not always be looked toward as true, due to the lack of credibility in the past with administration. The general population can decide this without motivation from you.

I don't think this is an issue of staff owning guilds. I think the issue here is when staff abuse their powers to help them take towers. That's obviously not right, and should be frowned upon. Report the staff members who do this. Email [email protected] with the subject "Staff Abuse - (person's name here)," and provide as much information as possible.

Them being "too popular" is a silly argument though. When they aren't working, they deserve the same rights as a normal player. Especially since they help the server for free.

Didn't really get what you mean... :[

thats all well and good, just dont be on both accounts at same time, and prevent admins from being allowed on ANY GANG TAG while on admin account, and then they cant abuse powers (well they still can, but hopefully this would lessen it).

I don't see anything wrong being online on both accs...
Some people have three accounts which are online on them at the same time.

tell me why you would need to be on both at same time, especially if your basing at the same time.

i can tell you one reason...

go for it.

thats the only reason i can think of, atleast only reason why you would be on both accounts, WHILE basing. so it doesnt "appear" you are even there, as your admin account to prevent accusations of abuse.

John, you dont base competitively, and when you do, its for a very short period of time. Now, an admin who does base competitively, this is too much potential for abuse.

I don't think any staff member does that, if so, contact Auron or snk for this kind of stuff.

LOL. admins will stick together. =) get real dude.

and they have been contacted, multiple times.

problem is, as admins, its easier for you to get away with this sh!t, ESPECIALLY if you are doing what I explained. I know what goes on, most dont or arent even aware of it.

I saw it everyday in sK, gimme a break dude.

No, they take those stuff very seriously.

I know admins who take basing even more "seriously".

Any cases of staff abuse (in the PR team, so in this case, Hearts)should be referred to either Reno, Vendhin, Street, Kane, or myself. Auron can investigate and at the worst, remove people in other departments if that's where your issue lies. Can i get a date on when Hearts was doing this? I'm not surprised at the slightest to be perfectly honest.
Pixel Ravenix was removed early last month for other reasons.

OT: If it's just an Admin basing on his iOS with no influence of his/her staff account then I don't see why not. I spend a lot of time on my iPod account as my PC isn't available to me at that point in time. If it's having both iOS and staff accounts online while basing then yes, that is a problem and it actually goes against PR guidelines. They clearly state that "Your staff tag is not to be abused in a base, doing so will involve a removal from the team", obviously, if this is happening, refer to the paragraph above.

if you have contacted them, then yes, they are aware.
Back on topic : I still see no reason of why a staff would not be owning a gang.
//Edit : forgot the 'not'

me niether. unless of course... lol

I think I misread this whole thread wrong, your saying that staff are not allowed to base WHILE on their admin accounts?

If it is, then yes I agree with you on this, staff should only be using this account for work related things, and not for actually playing the game, that is what their original account is for. On their player accounts however, staff deserve just as much freedom and choice as any other player.

FIN.

I probably should have rephrased things a bit. I do not agree with admins owning a gang, i believe it isnt neccesary and their focus should be on being an admin, and not focusing on competiting with other gangs, while being an admin.

However, as a compromise, i believe if admins are allowed to own a gang on their non-admin idevice account, they should NOT be allowed to be on their admin account at same time as their other device, to prevent abuse of admin powers. (there really is no reason to be on both)

Just so it might not be misinterpreted - Having both accounts online, by the book, is fine, as long as your staff account has no association with basing. Though, i can see where you're coming from, it encourages them.

This is like telling a WoW GM/Administrator that they can't own a Guild, it just doesn't work. You know that they don't use any staff abilities while running gang-related activities, and they need Gangs for debugging and such.