Change the spar leaderboard
 

Change the leaderboard again. The old leaderboard had a few flaws and could be abused. The current leaderboard is even worse and was intended to "increase sparring activity" but that is the opposite of what it is doing. This leaderboard ranks people based on how much they spar for the entire season and pretty much forces someone to throw away a huge chunk of their life to get their name to the top. Nobody wants to do this. Sparring should be a thing you do for fun when you are bored, not something you do as a full-time job. Sarah, who is the current #1 on this leaderboard and has been for the past year or so, does not even like this leaderboard. And I, the #1 on the previous leaderboard for multiple years, do not like that one. We need a wins per day/week/all time leaderboard, just like there is for player killing and baddy killing (which is useless by the way, why do they have a decent leaderboard and sparrers do not?). This would probably accomplish the goal that the current leaderboard came nowhere near accomplishing, and increase overall activity. Instead of throwing away their life for a whole 3 months to get to the top, sparrers can now throw away their life for just a day or a week to get their name on the leaderboard. Also, with this leaderboard, people would start setting goals for themselves, like "I'm going to get 500 wins today" or "I'm going to get 5,000 wins this week" and compete with their peers for the top spot of the day/week. This, instead of "I'm going to get 1,000 points today and still be 30,000 points behind Sarah with my name nowhere near the top of the leaderboard." If this is added, it can also get rid of the ugly iDevice/Facebook split on the leaderboard, since one can't really make the argument "this person is only winning more spars than me because they're on their pc."

The leaderboard was changed because people like you and your friends would constantly abuse a glitch to reset your rating deviation so that you could easily get points then camp at #1, let's just put that out there...

This is literally what you are saying right now:
"The current leaderboard is bad because you gain points equal to the ratio of the sparrer you beat, which means that it encourages players to spar actively. It makes more sense to have a wins leaderboard."

I don't think you realize how contradictory that sounds. Basically, you're just lobbying for an all-times spar wins leaderboard because you want something you can sit on without ever having to work for. To say that flat out wins is a better formula than weighting wins based on the ratio of the opponent you beat = obvious conflict in interest.

I'd actually love a spar leaderboard that is a 100% reflection of skill. I was probably #1 on the Mixed board 95% of the time I actively played before I suggested the new one. I've been #1 on the new one for a total of probably 20 days or something? I still prefer the new one because it punishes alternate accounts and encourages activity and less "careful" sparring. I'm not really interested in going back to a leaderboard where people can abuse a glitch and just sit at #1, that's dumb.

If we were ever supposed to go back to the old leaderboard:

• Fix the rating glitch
• Make the inactivity penalty way more frequent/severe
• Only allow sparring in the Mixed or iDevice room to affect leaderboards

Hated both boards. I'd agree with a similar board to the pk leaderboards. No one has the time to spar for 12k+ points every season, its absurd especially for someone who starts late in a season, you wont catch up.

^ Agree, but it's the same argument @ the default leaderboard being an all-time wins leaderboard. That'd literally be the same exact thing as the current leaderboard, except 0 reflection at all towards the skill of the players you were sparring.

When I suggested the new leaderboard, I asked for there to be a daily/weekly/seasonal points board, with the daily leaderboard being the default one. It's dumb that the default board is a seasonal one, because it's pretty much set in stone after the first month.

The old leaderboard + fixing the rating glitch + more severe inactivity penalty to discourage camping + only winning points in Mixed/iDevice room = good IMO
It will still come at the consequence of people sparring more carefully to protect their precious points though, which is dumb to me but whatever, can't be perfect.

1. I will forever deny this. You and I both know that I was the top iDevice sparrer in the whole game at the time and with this, I could easily climb the old leaderboard without abusing it. I just knew how to abuse it, told Tae to show him how dumb the leaderboard was, and then he became obsessed with it and went crazy.

2. Your awful leaderboard and a wins leaderboard are not the same thing. You are not encouraging people to spar actively. The other day your enemy Demrow had a status saying that he refuses to climb this ladder because of how dumb the system is. Is this encouraging sparring or scaring people away?

If you checked your awful leaderboard last week, you would have seen that I was #1 and putting up the most impressive pace on it so far (100k+ points if I kept it up). But I was throwing away a large portion of my life just to do this, and don't want to abandon my life to spar all day long. With your awful leaderboard, the only people encouraged to spar actively are those who are looking to throw away a significant portion of their life for three straight months to sit on the top. Forget about taking a vacation during the summer guys, Thallen wants us to spar every single day and earn that top spot. With a wins per day/week leaderboard, people would ACTUALLY spar actively to try to get to the top in these short periods of time, and take breaks whenever they wanted to. With your awful leaderboard, there is no such thing as a week of rest, we must put our full effort into sparring at all times or we will lose our chances. Don't know why you are so ignorant to anything that isn't your own idea. This is way better than your awful leaderboard when it comes to accomplishing the goal of getting more people to spar actively. We would have more people sparring every day to try to reach the top, instead of everyone just watching Sarah spar.

For a game that's obsessed with its own history I think this is a good idea(mainly because I've been saying this since I started asking for a spar leader board in the first place-that's right boys I was one of the first to ask for a sparer leader-board when they only had the 20k win post in the arena) People that spent enough time to get 30k+ plus wins should have a spot on the all-time list.


Don't buy into the old mans bs about skills. Between the crappy hosting server and all the cheaters in-game, sparring has come down to connections.

Also, don't understand why you are so against an all-time wins leaderboard. There is really no reason for this besides "Wow I hate that Comyt guy I don't want him to be in the top 5 of anything." If we wasted that much time sparring to get 70k wins, 60k wins, 50k wins or whatever, why not let it be shown to everyone? Will the curious noob question "I wonder who has the most wins on Graal" forever be unanswered because Thallen doesn't want anyone to see Comyt on a leaderboard!?!?!

I support any leaderboard that rewards the best players while also encouraging activity in sparring. The old leaderboard was awful because of glitch abuse and camping. The new leaderboard is bad because it is seasonal. It needed to be daily/weekly/seasonal.

Making the spar leaderboard an all-time wins leaderboard achieves neither. It does not reflect any measure of skill and it does not encourage activity. It does the opposite. It discourages people from sparring actively because they know they will never have a chance at passing Shan or Sarah, and it does not reward the best players because beating a great sparrer is effectively the exact same as beating a complete noob.

So every game in the world with an all time leaderboard for anything should not exist, because people can't catch up? These players who have wasted all of their time getting that huge amount deserve nothing! You spent thousands of hours working at something, nobody cares! You have too many wins and are scaring people away! Is that really how it works? Do you even see what you are typing?

Making your awful leaderboard daily and weekly won't do anything either. Hell, most of the people sparring don't even understand how that thing works. And you're saying that it will somehow convince sparrers to spar people with good records to get to the top? No, not really. Half of these people don't even care about their skill and your leaderboard only has a few people grinding it out. The majority of people spar to increase their wins and improve their ratios, they will continue "side-rooming" forever. Give people a wins leaderboard and then the people will finally have a leaderboard to put in work towards and noobs will be attracted to the arena to get their name up on something that actually makes sense to them. Keep this leaderboard and sparring will stay in the same awful state it is in right now.

What??? Let's see here:
Me, Kevin91, Sarah, Shan, Vlad. There is your top five all-time wins. No skill represented here all of these players might suck.

Using my 1500post on something i hate lol but..
I think having it just show how many spars youve won each day/week/alltime would be good
..or to even go more into that maybe have it like every win you get +1on ldrbd and every time you lose you get -1 on ldrbd? maybe just an idea.

I actually kinda like the current system. I can see who boost off of noobs or nah. but old system wasn't bad too. it shows whos the real boss.

^ support! if we can queue spar from the menu and face a randomly selected opponent.

Building upon this idea...

Make the ladder system aside from normal sparring (it was used in a game called Pop Tag)
if you win +1, you lose -1, draw is 0. if you get +60 you move on to the next division.
if you are -29 you get demoted or if you are in the lowest division it will just remain as -29.
When you advance in the ladder system, your score will go back to zero. That means you will at least have 29 or more chances before you get demoted.
if you are on the top division, everyday you will 3 points will be deducted from your score (to keep you active).
if you quit playing ladder at right below the top division, your points will remain there forever.

In the Pop Tag it was little more complicated, if you win you receive 4k coins, if you lose you lose 2k coins.
So more better you are, quick ez money you will get. + makes you take the game more serious.
You can choose not to play the ladder system. It won't impact your gameplay what-so-ever.
the point of ladder system is to promote the worthy players to fight someone at their level.

So ex) comyt assuming u easily make it to the division 5, you will most likely play against top tier sparrers, cause u are in the top division.
If you don't wanna face hard guys all day, you can just go to Battle Arena and face the normal ones.

If this system gets implemented in Graal. It shouldn't count towards ur spar stat.
It shouldn't have too many divisions like Pop Tag (pop tag had over 300k+ daily user & 10 divisions).
Queue is locked if you have an unstable connection. Queue is only available from the menu, players should be warned.
You receive 100 gralats when you win, lose 50 gralats when you lost. If you get +60 you get a small badge next to your name.
You will be proud of this badge, bc it's going to be very hard to be earned. almost impossible to boost with this system.

thx u fatal, u just reminded me this whole concept back lol

That is a pretty cool idea, though it probably would never get added. I'd still like to see a wins leaderboard.

We should have both:

-Wins per day/week/all time leaderboard to promote active sparring and show the players with the most wins in the game's history, as they deserve it for all of their effort.

-Something like that division system, not counting towards wins or losses, for those to see the "higher skilled" players.

Because let's face it, nothing is going to get more people in the battle arena besides the long-overdue wins leaderboard.

I believe in FP4, Dusty, Imprint, Rufus & almighty colin for this project.

I would love this so much. Maybe a reward every month for being in top tier?

Where is LoL elo system adiams. Should be like LoL.

I'm 9th on the board almost every season its so stupid how easy it is to get top 10.

Comyt vs thallen fight
to 10

-not that my opinion matters here-
but changing it to just a win count daily/weekly/all-time would make you waste more life getting to the top of the board. As I understand it, under the current board, sparring people with a lot of points will get you to the top quicker than sparring noobs.

Changing it to a win count board would be no different than the PK boards-- a disgusting scoreboard that has no way of reflecting skill.

I completely agree, though don't you think it's nice to see who's worked their ass off for spar wins even if they're not good?
Or see spar legends that have quit the game?

I think dedication shows through more than skill, (e.g. Kaos who was -4000 or something and is now 17k-16.4k) and a total board would good, and would be great for personal targets.

• The current board in a way shows skill, and completely punishes those who select spar as they will not gain points fast at all. Yet, like Sarah, you could beat 95% of people on the server so you are untouchable.
• The old board has problems yet did prove activity because it depreciated after a few days of not sparring, so this would show activity.
• I am in favor of this new idea. It would be great to see how many wins I get in a week, and would provide a good challenge to the super active sparrers. In hindsight, boosters would stand out like a sore thumb on the new boards because we'd all know they'd be gaining wins stupidly fast and we'd never see them in streak rooms.

Surely this new list, complete with an overall wins board, would bring back old sparrers with 20k wins so they keep sparring, and make it easy to see who needs a reward hat (when FP4 finally adds it) highlighting the fact it will inspire more people to spar.

-Old spar leaderboard is a no comment to me as it was abused. But what I liked about it is that it was harder than this one to be on top, we could start from anytime after the start of the season and still be that. We also didn't see bad sparrers on top like the current one..

- The current one: yes it makes people spar more but you can only be on top if you started in the beginning of the season (for most of the sparrers),
Good sparrers can go on a really bad ratio account and spar you and you aren't getting the rating that you deserve to get, the best leaderboard imo would be
-A daily/weekly/all time one: it's the most logical one to have. Winning the spar and getting either a "win" or a "rating"(as in the current leaderboard) for it is the same thing so this will keep the activity in spar. It will be useless for people to go on alt so they don't get low rating since it will be a win for all, you get what I mean..
We can start anytime and be on top of the weekly or daily one. As for the all time leaderboard, do you have a problem with the PK one? I don't think so, so why not make the spar leaderboard the same thing?? It would be great to have a top 100 highest wins, why would you want to put bad sparrers or noobs on top of a spar leaderboard?. I had 0 spars when Shan had probably 50k wins so pretty much anyone can pass anyone if they want to.

Agree ^

Loooool Sarah actually made a forum account this shows how seriously bad the spar system must be.

Add the thing when losing spars meant losing points. This leaderboard is about how often ppl spar not how good people are. Most people don't wanna spar for insane hours just to get more points. If you want an activity leaderboard create a separate one for that which also shows W and L. But for the main spar leaderboard make it skill based plz.

just make the current leaderboard daily/weekly/seasonal and you've fixed your problem

no.
this one: you have no life for 3 months.
wins per d/w/at: you can choose to have no life for a day or a week and take a break whenever you want without being punished and falling behind.

You kinda do fall behind because more people are sparring and getting more wins so they move up unless i'm not understanding the system that you are proposing correctly.

It shouldn't be based off of ur skill. should be based on ur dedication.

This is why I brought up the ladder system. If you want to reflect your skill you can use that.

lol damn yeah that was only 2 years ago.
i only want the d/w/t leaderboard bc of that. i wanna see all the top 100.
plus it will help detect boosters.

not really, this would be the same exact thing as the leaderboards for player kills and baddy kills. would be fun to set goals for yourself and you can stop sparring whenever you want to take a break and try to shoot for a high position when you are no longer tired for the next day or week. nobody is forcing you to spar every single week and place high, which is basically what the current leaderboard is doing.

I don't get it because you can set goals with the current system e.g. "Okay today I will get 5k points" "Tomorow I will get 10k points" etc. It'll basically be the exact same effect just showing a different thing.

Old rating was fine if deviation was just removed tbh.

you're forgetting the extremely annoying part where you fall behind for the whole season if you stop sparring for a week, and people don't even know how this thing works. really dumb imo how you can get 1000 points on this garbage from sparring brett 11 times and then you have to spar 100 people to get the same amount when he isn't sparring. i guess to have "skill" on this you have to learn how to control your life to the point where you log on at all times when brett is sparring. the best sparrer in the game could spar brett for 5 minutes for a certain amount of points and then take 2 hours to get the same amount of points against everybody else. wins leaderboard: way more balanced and would actually show whos doing better overall by winning the most spars, rather than who got lucky and sparred brett a few times. this one doesn't even accomplish its goal of showing skill.

Not going to bother suggesting details, but like the concept of a tier system, since I think most people who spar mentally divide people into tiers. Beating someone from a higher tier could give you more positive positive points and vise versa to keep it more skill based. And you could have something in your profile saying your current tier, so you could say you were an SS tier sparrer or whatever and feel all badass.

From the perspective of someone who barely plays and might play more if sparring (or events system) was improved, neither the old boards or the new boards made want me to spar. With the old board, I'd spar a day, get in the top fifteen or so, and then not have to do anything to stay there. With the new boards, I have absolutely zero chance of ever appearing as it requires constant activity.

#ALLHAILTHEBEAUTIFULQUEENSARAH_


I've said it before, no system will determine skill(at least on iclassic), so just stop trying to associate point systems with skills.


The only way to determine if someone is skilled or more skilled that you(no one in particular) is by fighting them and making your own decision(applies to active fighters because the only ones that use the current spar system to determine skills are newbies).


Look at the underrated thread, obviously the people that are being mentioned there need to have some sort of skill since people mentioned them without them no lifing it to get/stay at the top of the board.

I agree with this. I also think that the current PK leaderboard shows "skills" since for me skills in PK<=>fast kills, there's really not much skills involved in PKing anyway...
In spar also, skills <=> winning consistently and knowing how everyone spars. If you're going to say no skills is showed by the movement well what's the point of doing movements if you keep losing? If someone has both then this goes back to my defenition. The only leaderboard that kind of showed that is the old one since you have to win consistently to be high up but people would hoard points on it.
For the person who suggested a seasonal one instead of an overall one, we will be having the same problem as now, the main goal would be to get high on the seasonal one and those who didn't spar from the start can't. An all time one is way better if we are going to have spar hats, also it will encourage people to actually spar more and win to get on this leaderboard.

the whole idea of a seasonal leaderboard is really dumb imo and i don't understand how this garbage leaderboard even became a thing.

I'd just prefer a leaderboard for all time that shows W/L/D

what's d?

draw?

counting ties on a leaderboard would be super weird considering they have never done that and everybody would start with zero

Why not implement the old system but have a daily, weekly, seasonally and all time leaderboads if everyone loves the current system so much.
Would make everyone happy.

1/ I don't think that delayers will even have 1 tie and you know that... Something that has long needed to be fixed but nobody has done anything. I'm not going to defend something because I get advantage out of it.
2/ for the w/l one, the win leaderboard is basically a daily one..
And the losses page will be occupied by noobs lol imagine a group of new sparrers that keep sparring everyday, they will all be on it and probably losses can get a range of 3k-1k by season?? if the 100th person has 1k losses, you won't see the active sparrers' losses on it and I suppose the purpose of it is to see how many losses the active sparrers are getting. Personally I don't get 1k losses per season.
And if you decide to put w-l on the same page, it's impossible.

This is not an arguable thing, the PK and BK leaderboard work just fine so why not implement it to sparring? Every spar leaderboard we've had had flaws.

No I meant a spar leaderboard which shows how many spars people have + Their win/loss and draws all on one screen and not in different windows. Can allow you to compare who's been active a lot today and see their ratios and stuff.

But the leaderboard is going to be seasonal, you just converted the rating system with wins ,we still have the same problem people can't get high up anytime of the season. Ties one is completely useless, I delay and I rarely tie the ties. Imo best thing is the D/W/all time leaderboard to have the wins amount followed by the losses you got and not a w/l/t on same page.

I can't even warp my brain around some of these posts because they make zero sense to me, but I'm going to try my best.

If I'm reading correctly, the main arguing point here is this: "I don't like the current leaderboard because some people get a ton of points and then I can't catch up to them halfway into the season."
Okay, and the solution that I'm seeing most often: "We should change the leaderboard from points to wins."

?????????????????????????????

So basically, the exact same thing as the current leaderboard, except we no longer take into account the skill level of your opponent, but instead give you one point per every player you beat?

UHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH...
So your genius fix to the leaderboard is changing this:
To this:
http://media0.giphy.com/media/SufoKsersIO2Y/giphy.gif

So basically, remove any measure of skill from the leaderboard entirely, and just turn it into a "how many people I killed in spar leaderboard"? Can anyone explain to me what problem(s) this allegedly fixes? Are you guys trolling?

this would be great and would show even more skill than just a plain wins leaderboard would already show. you could then see how everyone active is performing, and if you see someone with a really good ratio that isn't a good sparrer, the sparring community could harass them until the end of time for boosting/selective sparring as they love to do.

thallen, let go of your garbage system already.

any leaderboard system where sparring brett a few times gives someone a full hour advantage over an equally skilled sparrer who can not spar brett because he isn't sparring at the time is completely ridiculous. the only skill showed in this garbage system is the stalker-ish talent of tracking down brett.

^^^

Can anyone clarify? Am I understanding this correctly? I am genuinely trying to understand this.
If not, someone please explain.

it's time to let go of your horrid idea and welcome in a leaderboard that would actually promote sparring and show skill, as yours does not accomplish at all.

a leaderboard for days/week/all time that shows both your wins and losses to everybody does an extremely better job of accomplishing what yours came nowhere near.

I'm honestly laughing

I wish you the best of luck pitching this idea to staff LOL
If you can't even intelligently explain why your methodology of a leaderboard is better, then you're gonna need it

"This leaderboard shows so much more skill! It promotes so much more sparring! It does everything and better! I just can't explain it..."

pointsWon = 1
^ This was the solution we needed all along guys.
SPARRING IS SAVED

iz thes jok???1?1 questin mark????? questin??? m i on te planit of earto?!!?!?1???1??1?1??

so basically what i'm seeing here is you think that having a good win/loss ratio doesn't show skill but beating someone with a good win/loss ratio shows skill? so on your leaderboard, we are beating people with a ratio that shows no skill in order to show that we have skill? what? give up.