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Weapon Balancing #1
Hello my fellow Zonians,
to make the game more fair we are balancing the weapons (before having a complete rework some time in the future). First up are mostly guns so here are the change log. One more thing, since this is a test run things may change, and we really need your feedback :) All items now have a lower hurt timer Default hurt timer is 0.5 91 weapons now have 0.3 165 weapons now have 0.2 16 weapons now have 0.1 Gun_AlexSniper= 7 to 8 Gun_APPirces=4 to 5 Gun_AppleLauncher=5 to 6 Gun_Blaster=8 to 10 Gun_BlueLaserGun=5 to 6 Gun_ChristmasRifle=6 to 7 Gun_Commando=10 to 12 Gun_DartGun=3 to 4 Gun_DartPistol=5 to 4 Gun_FuturisticBow=7 to 6 Gun_GhostShooter=7 to 6 Gun_GreenDualPistol=15 to 11 Gun_HeartThrower=4 to 5 Gun_IceCannon=10 to 8 Gun_IonCarbine=4 to 8 Gun_July4th2016WingGun=8 to 7 Gun_LuckyBow=6 to 5 Gun_Paragon=9 to 7 Gun_PinkPistol=4 to 7 Gun_PulseSniper=8 to 9 Gun_RailGun=7 to 8 Gun_RebelGun=5 to 6 Gun_RocketPunch=10 to 8 Gun_Silencer=5 to 7 Gun_Streamer=5 to 6 Gun_StreamerObsidianSkin=5 to 6 Gun_StreamerSkin1=5 to 7 Gun_Summer2016WaterGun=8 to 7 Gun_SummerERBeamer=5 to 7 Gun_Xmas2014Proton=5 to 6 Gun_Xmas2015NailGun=7 to 6 Gun_ZapGun=7 to 8 Melee_AlienDualBlade=7 to 8 Melee_BlackFridayHammer=10 to 12 Melee_BlizzardStaff=14 to 13 Melee_Bone_Sword= 6 to 7 Melee_Boned=11 to 12 Melee_Easter2015Halberd=14 to 13 Melee_GravityHammer=8 to 13 Melee_Hungo_Blade= 6 to 7 Melee_Hween2015_BlackDragon=8 to 7 Melee_Hween2015_GreenDragon=8 to 7 Melee_Hween2015_OrangeDragon=8 to 7 Melee_Hween2015_RedDragon=8 to 7 Melee_Hween2015_SkullBlades=14 to 13 Melee_PlasmaSword=11 to 12 Melee_RodekBlade=12 to 13 Melee_Samurai=9 to 15 Melee_SigilBlade=14 to 13 Melee_StarDualBlade=7 to 8 Melee_TwinBlade=14 to 13 Melee_VerectoBlade=15 to 13 Guns/AlexSniper Higher Freeze --- Guns/APPirces Lower clipsize, Less bullet spread, higher freeze, higher reload freeze, different bullets, Changed Bullet position NEW Semi-Automatic TO Burst --- Guns/AppleLauncher Higher Clipsize --- Guns/APRipper Higher Freeze --- Guns/AtomBlaster Higher Reload Freeze, Changed Bullet position --- Guns/AucionSniper Lower Clipsize, Lower Spread, Higher Freeze, Lower reload freeze --- Guns/AuctionSoulBurn lower Clipsize, Changed bullet position --- Guns/Aussie2015GatorGun Higher reload freeze --- Guns/Blaster * Higher Freeze --- Guns/BlueLaserGun higher clipsize, higher freeze, higher spread, changed bullet position --- Guns/Bow1 Lower clipsize, Lower freeze, added hotkey --- Guns/CandyCornRifle Changed Bullet Position, Higher reload freeze --- Guns/Chaingun Randomized spread --- Guns/Commando * New Bullet ani, Higher Freeze, Lower Reload Freeze, new hotkey --- Guns/DartGun Lower Freeze --- Guns/Eastergun2 Higher Freeze --- Guns/ERBeamer Higher clipsize --- Guns/ERCannon Higher clipsize, Lower freeze, lower reload freeze, new hotkey --- Guns/FestiveNailGun Changed Bullet position, Higher freeze --- Guns/FlamePistol * Lower clipsize, Added recoil, higher freeze, higher reload freeze --- Guns/FlowerGun Lower Clipsize, Higher reload Freeze --- Guns/GaffixRifle Higher reload Freeze --- Guns/GhostGun Higher Reload Freeze --- Guns/GoldLaserGun Lower Clipsize, Higher Freeze, Higher reload freeze --- Guns/Goonadier Disabled --- Guns/GPAssualtRifle Higher Freeze --- Guns/GrassGun Changed Bullet Position, Higher Freeze, Lower Reload Freeze --- Guns/GreenDualPistol * Higher clipsize, Lower Freeze, Lower reload Freeze, New Hotkey --- Guns/GreenRifle Higher Spread, higher reload freeze --- Guns/GrenadeLauncher Lower clipsize --- Guns/Heartbreaker Lower clipsize, higher freeze, higher recoil --- Guns/HeartGun2015 Higher Freeze --- Guns/HeartThrower Lower Clipsize --- Guns/HeavyLaser Lower Freeze --- Guns/Indep2016WingGun Higher Freeze, Higher Reload Freeze --- Guns/IonCarbine Higher clipsize, Lower Freeze, Lower Reload Freeze --- Guns/July4Independence Higher recoil, Higher freeze, Higher Clip, Lower reload freeze --- Guns/KV24 Lower spread, Lower Freeze, Higher reload freeze --- Guns/Lavagun Disabled --- Guns/LightningPistol Higher freeze --- Guns/LoveRifle Higher spread, Higher reload freeze --- Guns/LRPulsar Higher Freeze --- Guns/LuckyBow Higher Freeze, Lower spread --- Guns/LufosBlaster Lower Clipsize, Lower Freeze, Lower reload freeze --- Guns/MetallicRifle Higher reload freeze --- Guns/PezRifle Lower clipsize, lower freeze, lower reload freeze --- Guns/Photon Higher Freeze, Higher reload freeze --- Guns/PinkPistol Higher clipsize, higher spread, lower freeze, higher reload freeze --- Guns/PlasmaChaingun Higher recoil --- Guns/PlasmaShotgun Higher freeze --- Guns/PoisonVine Higher freeze, Higher reload freeze --- Guns/PulseRifle Lower clipsize, lower freeze, lower reload freeze, new hotkey --- Guns/PumpkinGun Lower clipsize, higher spread, lower freeze --- Guns/RailGun Higher recoil, higher freeze, lower reload freeze --- Guns/RebelGun Higher freeze, higher reload freeze --- Guns/RifleRed Higher reload freeze --- Guns/RudolphGun Higher spread, lower freeze, higher reload freeze --- Guns/Silencer * Lower clipsize, higher freeze, higher reload freeze, new hotkey --- Guns/SiphonPistol Higher freeze --- Guns/Stingray Higher recoil --- Guns/Stp2015Gun Higher freeze --- Guns/Stp2015LuckyCharm Higher recoil, Higher freeze --- Guns/STP2014 Higher clip, Lower reload freeze, Lower spread --- Guns/Streamer Lower clipsize, higher freeze --- Guns/Summer2016WaterGun Higher freeze --- Guns/SummerERBeamer Higher clipsize, higher freeze --- Guns/Sunscreen Lower clipsize, lower freeze --- Guns/WhisperWindRifle Higher spread, higher freeze --- Guns/Xmas2014CandyCannon higher reload freeze --- Guns/ZapGun Higher spread, Removed light hotkey, added new hotkey --- Melee/AlexBackPack Higher spread, higher freeze --- Melee/Arbitar Higher clipsize --- Melee/Azurake Higher freeze, higher reload freeze |
:) haven't posted for a while, nice to see things are moving
Question, I noticed there are reload freeze and ‘freeze’, is that firing freeze? Also feedback on the normal chaingun, the hit timer were too high, you can empty 2 clip and still not kill a standing target |
Btw, some guns are staff only guns, made for testing purposes, and some recoil changes werent listed, ill make a copy and update it later. Also, since i had to do these on the dev server, idk how well everything transfers over so let me know what yall think and msg me in game
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First of all, I like that there are changes being made to the weapons. As this is only the first of probably many balances, I can see some improvements and attempting to get melees to the same level of effectiveness as guns currently do.
Not that I am complaining, more of a different point of view, but from looking at the above statistical information, the auction weapons still have a considerably large advantage over the top tier buyable/holiday weapons. Of course, they're auction weapons and therefore should be better, but I still think the gap is too large and unfair, especially with the number of duped auction weapons from staff accounts in the past. In terms of improvements for future weapon balancing updates, there should be a significant increase in recoil to give the guns harder control, adding this could affect the gun ecosystem in that the surrounding environment could play a larger role in firefights. Along with this, I'd like to add that the melees still need some sort of improvement to allow them to have a fair fight against a gun-wielder. I don't currently have any specific options that could influence an improvement for this, however possibly implementing a completely new range of effects that could allow a melee-wielder to track and trap an opponent. Overall, this looks to me like a great first step in weapon balancing and I look forward to future updates involving weapon changes. |
The pulse sniper is still gonna be at 8, same rof as rippers. All the auction guns besides the soulburn and pusle rifle will be at the same rof actually. I made sure they wont be op, that wouldnt be fun for anyone.
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Seems good to me
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So what I'm hearing is that maraca gets no love?
I mean it gets no hate either so I can't really complain... But why make the dragons so much more weak? Like nobody already uses them... 7 dmg? Brevs. I also really like the drop down dmg of all auction melees. It balances the game more. That being said, was anybody actually upset with the damage? Most people complained about their effects. I think in general the sabre just needs a buff. Considering how it's our most recognizable weapon, it does like no damage and isn't even worth the ZC because in that price point you can get way better stuff. I think in general the melees were still underlooked. I do like the buff to almost all zc shop melees, but there's still so many unbalanced melees. And I don't mean in terms of being OP, just tons which are really weak. Like if we're holding the same light to holiday melees for being old, why isn't the tree dagger buffed? And I know that staff cannot affect the trade values, but I do think that there should be some oversight and lapse over certain "rare" items. Like the carrot dagger goes for 2k and does like absolutely nothing against essentially anyone. Also how u gunna nerf the blizzard staff when one person has it and they're inactive? like wot? i think that one was just a personal attack and I'm lowkii triggered by that. Geno I think you should respect the maraca and the burritos. Went from being second best to just being ehh again. Bump em up to 12.5 ;) |
Some of these guns look like they got nerfed way too much. Some weren't even that powerful from the start
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That's the problem with having so many weapons, all with different statistics. You have a hundred pieces all workimg against each other and you're trying to find equilibrium. Props if you can actually find that - though, I highly doubt it. I'll never know, though, since I don't PK at all. I think the best thing to do would be to classify every gun into separate classes, and make all classes have the same base stats. Some (very few and depending on the circumstances) might have very minor tweaks, but for the most part every gun in a class would have the same stats. I just think this is effort wasted by continually changing gun stats with the goal to find equilibrium in a complex web of hundreds of different statistics.
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-if dmg isnt much of an issue then the auction melees could go back to 14, but we won't know til its added -a saber is like 100zc, its not worth anything. Shouldnt even be tradable tbh -most of our melees are holiday stuff sold for like 7000 gralats, not much i could really do with them, and i do plan on adding more melees in a shop soon. -carrot dagger uses a special effect that slows while damaging, kinda like being burned and poisoned at the same time -the blizzard staff, verecto blade, dominius blade, rodek blade, and twin blade are all one of a kinds, all capped at 13 dmg like the other auction melees, dont ever say anything that ridiculous to me ever again -half dmgs dont do anything Quote:
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Y geno no take good banter? i vas clearliez making jokz about half damaz and le blizzard.
But fr, maraca and burrito deserve loves. make em 13;) someone on the in game forums even suggested that lel. Hold up, speaking of which- you should buff up the default dagger. It's like le same as a fist essentially. All I'll say is that the effects don't make an item any better other than the confusion. Even then it's kinda debatable... like slowness is just a nuisance but anyone who knows how to circle can easily counter act that(melee wise... in a gun fyt it's pretty useful)... and burn is really only useful... sike it's not useful. There are two times when a melee is actually better over a gun. In melee spar(duh) and base rushing. Don't look at them as if people would PK with them. That's silly. Even I don't do that. It'd be much more beneficial to have the weaker effects like burn and slowness just be replaced for pure damage. Yea it makes the game more boring, but those effects are really useless. Slowness, as I've said, is just useless for melees as even noobs know the circle-go-through strats. Burn is really only useful that first hit. Afterwards it does nothing as most melees would still take 4 hits(5 for plebs). That straight up does nothing when you spam twice per hit. The only effect that has ever been useful for melees has been the confusion, and that's simply because people didn't know how to counter it at first. Most people who I would consider great at melee spamming can just circle around like mad for the gains. If you're basing the sabre as "low" due to it's zc price, you should do so for everything else. Because by that logic, the black friday hammer should only be at like 11 since it's way cheaper than all the other 12 dmg weapons. Do not limit it like that because of the player base. It's worse than some holiday mels... Also remember that a sabre is still the most expensive melee in gralats. In fact the 20K gralats would be like 1k ZC still... so ye. (oh and is the third Streamer the blue one? should be more dmg if you're putting auction melees at 13 with effects...) |
Did you at least decrease the recoil for the 2014 valentines gun?
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I cant even change the speeds of something like the dragons, which is why i put burn on them. Tbh i think they need a complete rework, maybe i could get access to them. And ive taken everything you said into consideration, nothings gonna be final yet so it can go in that direction if needed, effects have always been iffy so we'll see
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most holiday guns were priced at 7777 gralats. That was the price up to Tashkin leaving, and even then I think Alex kept them mostly at 7777
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It seems like the 7777 was a trend that most players enjoyed so why not keep it going? It's a much better option vs paying 27k or however much it costs now to buy a holiday gun. I actually think the change is what annoyed a lot of people.
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Need Help on zone fast
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Yeah, its a mess, i myself have stopped trading now cuz i knew it would keep getting worse, i got my stuff while it was cheap and stopped. There isnt much to get early on in trading besides crappy holiday weapons, anything better requires grinding. Rare hats and auction items will take ages to get now, the cheapest you can even get something like a sigil blade is about 65k zc. Zc really need to go
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Haha I remember when I got 3k ZC and thought I was rich. I was offered 10k zc for a hat and at that time, 10k ZC was the most anyone had (it was when everyone was talking about who were the first ones to get 10k) and now I see people with 50k ZC sitting on a table.
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You can't increase dragon speed with the current script. But it'd be easy to add a speed limit variable to them then just run it throughout the script. Just use a const so you can always go back and change it up later instead of going all over the script.
I planned to keep ZC as a mission currency then come out with an actual event currency, still sounds like a good idea to me. |
Just make ZC unreadable. Sure it'll make pros mad, but then we could have a vendor buy zc for graalium, at a price of 5zc=1 graalium. Thats probably a bad ratio, ik, but I dont trade either so itd obviously be tweaked if this actually happend.
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(Off topic from weapon balancing, but this does balance the economy, which would balance weapon control)
I suggest giving the players a 1 month advance that ZC is being removed. Let them do what they must, let the rage chill, then announce that there will be a conversion of ZC- 5 gralats/zc. Afterwards, sell a new top-tier gun to reduce the influx of gralats in the system, or hold an auction. Actually, yea it'd be more efficient to hold an auction as the people who had 10000k zc would still not be nubs again cus they'd have auction items at probs a less steep price. Cus i don't think that trading is an issue. ZC is. |
ZC is the main 'trade' currency. Why would we just remove the currency alltogether? I mean auctions would be a way to get rid of it but I think we should still have some kind of mission currency. That could always end up being their main currency for trade as well. Since they convert 2 graalium > 1 zc.
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ZC is too broken. Keeping it the trade currency wouldn't fix the trade problems. It would just fix the event problem. I think by now, Zone has to just take an L and remove ZC altogether. Maybe staff could make a very good quality hat (not tradable) to give to players with over 5k ZC as a way to repay them, but for Zone's economy to improve, ZC has to go. If there was a ZC only auction and was announced that it would be the last chance to use ZC, then that would be fine. ZC just needs to go, though.
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Agreed. Like SKT said there should be a 1 mont(maybe less like 2 weeks) warning before its removed- if this whas to ever happen of course.
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Yeah uh half these guns idk where you are supposed to get if they even are obtainable.
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And that's an issue. You talk about the combat system, but I honestly think that the economy has to be fixed. Like very badly. The only issue with the whole "if you have 5K..." thing Pig suggested is that many of us never have pure ZC on hand. I have about 6k just in fancy guns(which I'm selling... buy them pl0x) and given a direct notice that ZC will be removed, why would anyone buy those with ZC?(actually now that I look at it, it could go either ways... like some would love to hoard for the exchange while others would get rid of it all... but still) |
The changes are being made now, still not completely done. Some things didnt transfer from dev properly and will be fixed up btw
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Buff Burrito x.x
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Zc is a failed trading currency. When I was still on the staff team I urged Chelt to make a new zc shop that would have some need items that players could buy, and then it would have a conversion bucket in the middle to convert the zc to gralats. This way you give people an option to use the zc one last time to buy some new items and to then trade in zc for gralats. The idea was to announce that ZC was being removed a month prior and that this shop would be opened for a month and then all zc would be removed. However more pressing things seemed to come before the zc removal, (Gender options), but its still a decent method of eliminating the currency and rewarding the players. I like the idea of having auctions right after the entire process.
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Yea. I haven't seen anything done for Zone yet and all I have to go off of is what has actually been implemented. So for someome in the staff team to give the usual bull **** line, "we have projects planned and in progress! Don't worry." that I myself have seen and done many times before, well... it means nothing. The only thing I've seen is the in-game forums being made again, which was actually already planned while I was still staff and before new management came. FR and I talked about it and he said he was going to make the forums, so I'm not going to be on record saying that the forums were in progress, but they were at least planned to come back. Gunderak had already made them before because he's been a beast for Zone (but I guess he quit?). This new management has been in a very long time now - long enough to have fixed a **** load of the crap on Zone that is broken. No one wants new content as long as the entire core of Zone's gameplay is still trash and broken. No efforts have been publicly made to fix any major issues Zone has. Just words for new things to be made, and even none of that has actually been released yet. Not even considering the tileset since someone else is making it and all the staff team has to do is make a map with the tiles, which should take a week, maybe two if they don't have any planning beforehand. TL;DR: Fix the damn **** that's already broken before you add more broken ****. |
With that, i also think the zc shop items need to be converted into gralat items
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I would... Idk about that one Geno. I think that as a way to reconcile and keep order it would be a good idea to just have the zc shop close entirely and make those weapons become unobtainable. It'll make those who did put effort into getting them all feel more pr0, and when larger changes occur and new players do come, it'll still show as like a badge of veteran-ness.
That being said, I think certain items which everyone uses should still be in the game for gralats like the heal staff, rail, and alien. The other stuff(which like 10% of zone even bothered to get) could be removed entirely and then buffed. This guns thread became an economic thread real quick. |
What was the point of increasing / lowering freeze on the guns? Are players going to freeze when they fire bullets now?
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Nobody knows exept for him
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Freeze is rof, that's all
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Hi alex can you tell bae to get on so I can get my stuff back. Thanks bae
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I really like the burst option on the Ap Pirces, but I think it needs to be like Era's Assault Rifle Burst.
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Graalium is a better currency. It's very fair and is similar to trochus on Era.
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We had an entire thread devoted to the zc issue and we had multiple solutions based on supply and demand that would easily solve the issue. Removing zc by force is not how you want to do it. Instead, reduce the demand for it and add a third currency that you obtain by trading in the zc. It's more complicated than it sounds, but removing zc cold turkey would destroy the economy. It really isn't that hard to fix the zc problem, ultimately. It should be a priority as the economy affects practically all aspects of gameplay. #theinflationisreal
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Chelt when are you having someone fix the dev? i recall Geno saying in in-game forums that the testing server for gun stats is not equal to zone's? Gun stats cant be balanced well in game if the test server is inaccurate.
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so why is geno leaking this random player abt the server is zone allowed to do that now? last time i remember it wasnt allowed to leak info this was prob before tashkin or around tashkin being manger.
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Its to let yall know that things are gonna take longer than the last time i did changes. I usually didn't have to rely others for changes to happen, but now i do since chelt wanted me to do things this way, and these changes are being done on others schedules. Its to ask people to be patient with everything and give it all some time
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i meant why geno is telling that fibi girl about a forum issue that she cant fix should talk with the staffs
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The test server given to Geno is hindering his workflow. IDK why the management is not fixing the issue. There could have been less updates needed to finalize the gun stats and more time to develop new projects.
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1) Geno told everyone, not just me. 2) Geno is not making me fix the problem, he only wants people to know why gun stats changes are going to be slow. 3) Geno already told the manager but he ignored the problem. 4) Please improve your English reading comprehension as all these statements above are a rephrase of previous posts. |
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geno didnt have to tell you or any other normal players BECAUSE THEY CANT FIX IT. I SAID YOU CANT FIX IT NEVER SAID ANYTHING SAYING YOU CAN LEARN TO READ put it in caps to ease reading bro |
I just said its because I need people to be patient about everything
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yea i know what you said i was just bashing that ****** for having comprehension issues.
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