Initiative guilds need to end.
 

Graal has competitions for gfx stuff and only initiative members know and are allowed to participate.
apparently you are only a good gfx that can participate if you are in the initiative family, and only members can make accounts on their forum.
its not about your GFX ability that solely determines if you are recruited, ask Pimpsy, he got forced out of it despite his skill. players that dont want to deal with a guild cant participate, in fact even if your work has been used in a game update, they can still bar you from participating because of a guild, when all guilds are supposed to be equal.


yet the initiative was made so players could participate and learn how to make their graphics better....
come on, get rid of the initiative guilds, make it for all players, tell everyone about the contest and let all players have a chance, let all gfx join on the forum.

this is just shameful such a thing is allowed to go on.
if you really think your graphics are good, you should have no problem letting other players participate. with the forum anyone could sign in and get help there. we could see projects, and submit, everyone could be able to do it, regardless of our past history.

i say let everyone participate like it should have been, without having any bias.

I think that the Initiative is a good way for Classic iPhone to find good graphics admins, and plus it's fun for everybody in the guild. There's other competitions like Azrael's hat contest, too, and those are open to the public. If you want to participate why not try to join?

Plus, didn't Pimpsy get mad at you last time you tried to fight for him to get back in?

You have a few points that might be valid, but I'm not going to support you because you just insulted about ten of my friends. :angry:

Mostly what Mattkan said in his first paragraph is my answer. I love the Initiative, i've been in Canvas since November 2011 and I don't want my membership to end now because of some silly complaint. If you want your work uploaded you can enter public graphics contest or email your work to iClassic.

well when i posted this on my facebook he agreed and was agreeing with it, plus they can still find good graphics admins out of all the gfxers of graal, and everybody can have fun, the way it is now only the hand picked elites can participate and have fun,

you shouldnt have to join, the initiative was supposed to be made to allow ALL players to have the ability to participate and learn how to gfx, there was nothing about guilds, the entire mission of the project has be misused.

no guilds should be "better" and have perks that others cant get.

allowing everyone to participate can only do good, players that are in the initiative just show how much they love the special treatment when they fight against this, if they were really that good, and if they really were only focused on getting better, allowing everyone to participate would be good right?

all contests should be public, nothing makes members of a guild special, there is not "membership", everyone could still particiapate, all it would do is allow everyone to be able to do what you are able to do, it would only make it fair, you could make a guild and recruit your friends and not get any special perks or bias just like every other player.

are you really going to argue that you deserve special treatment and that other players being able to participate affects you negatively?

its not really the members fault as it is triggers and whoever designed it so it would be this elitest way.

Well they want players that know a good amount of graphics-making information and have some skill at graphics to start with. Look, I was horrible when I first joined back in November and i've improved so much. They recruit people with different graphics skills, but you need to have a good enough graphics skill to join so you at least know what your doing.

https://www.facebook.com/higbeythede...98286523547470
for some points made on facebook post.

You're like talking directly to the members, who are my friends:

it says "This page is not found."...

how is that any excuse? of the forum was open to everyone then anyone could improve too, people could learn the basics, and those who are rather good at it but dont want/cant to join some guild can still participate,

there is absolutly no excuse for how a select few picked by staff for a guild should be able to do what everyone else cant, theres no significant downside to letting everyone participate.

i think the decision is clear.

Actually many of the members aren't even picked by staff. I know one of the choosers is iNana and he isn't staff.

This kind of goes with the idea that there's tons of opportunities out there, but you can't just sit around and expect them to show up at your doorstep. You can easily seek out entrance into the guild if you want to participate (and this goes for anybody), but you can't just sit around and expect to get involved.

It's staff who get the final say. Say with me or Pimpsy. Even if inana recruited us the staff would kick us for reasons that have nothing to do with the point of the mission.

Once again I ask, why would the current system be better if in the way I came up with everyone can participate. Theres no downside. Only reasons to do it, no reasons not to.

Everyone that wants to should be able to. No guild should be given special advantages.

I dont understand why anyone unbiased would think it would be bad. In fact if iniative members enjoy having people help them improve and like doing the contests wouldn't they think it's fair for everyone to be able to do it too? Regardless of a silly guild family that wasn't even part of the project initially?

Note to self: Dont talk to higbey about your views on a matter because without asking he will put you on the spotlight in one of his rant threads that pretty much disrespects a lot of people.

You supported me on Facebook and you are actual proof. They cant really say you were forced out due to gfx stuff if your now a gfx on iera.

The guild is open for ANYONE to JOIN. Its not like its some closed off super exclusive guild. And seeing the skill level of some of the members the bar isn't set high, you could easily join. Also you don't have to wear the tag, so 'dealing' with a guild is a non-issue.

that's just from my past experience with that guild.

And nobody is stopping Azrael or any other admin from holding their own contests.

Well yeah, staff would kick you out because you've insulted them ten times over. And anybody's allowed to join except a few people like Pimpsy for valid reasons, and it seems like they don't want you to support them either.

So... what's the point of this thread?

Regardless if you think I'm proof of this, You shouldn't put me on the spotlight like this representing your own unique take on the matter on the official iclassic forums without asking. That's kinda rude.

Pimpsy already told you off once for posting this on the forums on the forums.

Everybody can! The guild is open to all Graphics makers! What do you want them to do, send you a personal invitation? Delivered personally to you?

Why even need a guild that only certain people can join when the whole thing could be for anyone to join?

They made the guild in a way that is private and professional. Everything inside the guild is well organized. If they opened it to the entire public then not only would it be chaos but the experience would lessen for everybody. So now, in the way that it is, it's set up that not only existing members can get the most out of it, but non-members can join if they want to and put a little bit of effort towards it.

Im pretty sure the only example you have of someone being kicked out is me... I mean in my own extremely biased view I agree with the idea that it shouldn't be a guild, but thats coming from someone that was kicked out due to bashing the server and getting fired. That's a little different than a regular person that got kicked out for yelling at someone. Please stop trying to resurrect something that ended over a year ago. Thanks!

Clearly not everyone can join. I can't join, Pimpsy -er other players can join, the fact that the leaders and such choose if you can join shows it's not for everyone. If anyone could join the guild, making it do anyone can participate only gets rid of a limiting unneeded step.

So, why not? Why shouldn't anyone be allowed to participate without any guild involved?

Everyone can go on this forum. That doesn't lessen the experience does it?

And if it's for everyone and not a exclusive guild why did you say it's private?

Got you.

I never have heard of the guild until now, but I can see where both Higbey and some of you who support the Initiative guilds are coming from. While special contest just for a certain group of people can sometimes be unfair or unequal for other players I think that in this case it does benefit the server. Many gfx seemed to improve tremendously and in that you are rewarding and training your future gfx staff. One thing I have noticed lately for era and classic is that gfx has been getting all these contest and rewards. I think these contest should be equalized. For example have other contest for LAT, SFX, or basically any role. Also should be more in game contest for lets say pkers first of all. If you are going to reward people for their graphics ability why would you overlook the actual people who keep keep your player count consistently where it is? I will give credit for basing and the GST which finally happened on era even though it was pretty messy. Basically from my rambling I am trying to get at I am fine with contest and such, but I don't like when it is only for one group of people everytime.

From the perspective of the iclassic staff members both you and I posses qualities that are immature to them, and that is exactly what they are trying to prevent to ensure organized contests. From my perspective its unfair (because I couldn't join back then, lol) but I still respect their opinion for attempting to form a balanced cooperative community in the best possible way.


Read through those massive drama threads on the iEra section and get back to me.

My point is that it's a private guild that's open to the public for anybody to join. Are all of its actions publicized entirely? Nope. But it's open to the public who wants to apply to join.

Here's a real life example of this. I'm currently going to volunteer at a hospital this summer. I had to apply to get in and only the best of the best (supposedly) got in.

It'd be a bad experience if anybody was allowed in, which makes it private. But it's open to the public, just like this guild. And because it's private, it's a better experience for all the members participating than it would be if anybody was just let in without application.

Well duh that's a hospital not a contest. People's health v.s. a art contest..

It's not a giant contest, it's a way for all graphics staff to improve. Same principles.

Fine fine, I'll let XOR be the deciding factor. I know two others who have been kept out of the the initiative for reasons other than gfx, but when they messaged me on facebook revealing it both mentioned not wanting me to reveal who they are.

It's comparing the two. The names sound different but the two concepts are similar. As Mattkan explained.

Let Xor decide. He's the one who let us do this anyways, Trigger just created the guilds and started the family by making the first branch. Xor has all power over the Initiative. The Initiative actually has gotten a little more fair for a reason I don't know if I am allowed to tell.

Please don't tell me you just told higbey to bow to xor's management...

I'm just telling him some of the information I know about the Initiative. Since I don't think he quite knows how it works.

Ooh now look theres definite favoritism within staff.

Pimpsy. Consider the void. When me and XOR focus on a common goal and keep the past and drama behind us we can be quite effective. Our days of fighting are over

How?

I don't see why you can't have both public and Initiative specific contests? They could open up a building that could be stocked up with player submitted content for public contests and The Initative's graphics will be put where they usually are. The Initiative I like because it provides a safer system that can detect if members are stealing customs where as if everyone on Graal submitted customs it would be more difficult. The Initiative isn't really that private. I was just recruited without them even seeing my graphics. I left it awhile ago for personal reasons, but it's really not that private.

That would be kinda cool... like the Initiative could host a contest for everybody not in the guild, and then the winners or any notable participants could be invited to join. :D

Or have their art put in the mueseum.

The prize being able to join them wouldn't be a prize if they accept everyone so...

Was more of the Initiative could benefit by this by finding new members.

Judging from some of the talent in the actual initiative forums, it doesn't seem too hard to get in as long as you're respectful. Maybe you should work on that instead, Higbey.

I'm not aiming on joining the initiative.

This isn't a Staff Only ran guild - I run conceptualize. Also, being in charge of recruiting and ANYONE who gets in goes through me, I can definitely tell you some of your points are invalid. If a person sends me the (3) minimum graphics, including 1 hat, that aren't: Stolen or recolored, I recruit them. They then are able to participate in contests, and pretty much anyone can get in, and once you're in you can participate. There's really no need to hate against it, because we are actually VERY open to the community

Well, I don't mean to be rude, but it doesn't really make since for you to make this thread then... You're basically asking for it to be open to everybody... but why, if you don't want to get in?

I mean, I think you think you're helping a bunch of people by doing this, but if someone has an issue, let them handle it. I can tell that not many people have an issue with it because of the lack of threads like this.

But what's the need for that when you could just be completely with the community? No guild.

It's more of a great experience for its members rather than a giant community affair.

I'd like to partake in one or two contests, maybe post in the pixelate forum there and learn anything else I can learn.

I dont want to join any guild. I never wear a guild tag. I don't do guilds.

The guild:
A) Helps other members improve instead of hundreds of people turning in items.
B) Just that, prevents hundreds of items from being turned in.
C)Allows us to manage and see if there is stolen artwork, trust me we've caught people doing it, with hundreds of submissions, it'd be impossible to manage that.

Come on, you can't say that 3 pieces of art is such a problem. Let's be rational.

Then talk to iNana and I bet you could work something out. :D

Wouldn't it be a great experience for the community? I mean is the amount of players really that crucial that it outweighs everything? Does having everyone able to participate affect them negatively? And why should the wants of a few outweigh all the players that want to participate in competitions?

sounds like a personal problem

Better for you, tags not even a requirement. The requirement is that you participate in the contests. We've had many people in other major guilds join and be active on the forums.

Too bad attitude is taken into account when choosing the winners.

Hmm, I don't really know how to explain it.

I'm going to make up numbers here, so please forgive me.

You have one thousand members in a community of varying degrees of talent--some fantastic talent, some not so fantastic talent. You start doing tasks like this and release a forums, and it becomes a bit chaotic. A lot of the work isn't very good, and it's hard for the organization to be controlled because of the tons of members producing extremely different content. It's so chaotic, and now the hundreds of entries for every contest just get a "yeah, nice" or a "decent" comment from the leaders of the organization. Nobody's really getting anything out of it anymore. They improve, but solely on a personal basis. There's so many members that it's crazy for everybody and isn't as fun or useful.

Now, then you have the Initiative with twenty members (random number, sorry). These members have proven to be talented and are dedicated to working with one another to even further their talent. Because of the general skill and smaller population, everybody is able to interact better. People get to know everybody instead of just forming their own groups of friends within the organization. The members get plenty of tips from each other, and the leaders will be able to spend more time helping all the members. It's good for all the members.

Is the first one better than the second one? Depends who you ask. The first one is okay for 980 members of Graal, but the second one is extremely good for 20 members of Graal. The bottom line, however, is that both are completely different. The Initiative is not the first and so it's silly to try to change the second into the first because, well, that's not what it was made for. A different organization could fill that niche, but not the Initiative. Not because it isn't capable of it but because that's just not what it is.