There are programs, and maybe even apps (have not tested) that can make your ms slightly higher to extremely high. I have tested many ways, but the most important of all of this is that when someone is force delaying, it's very noticeable.
This is strictly for educational purposes, so please don't use the following to make yourself delay/lag. Without further a do, I'll list ways on how you can tell when someone is forcing delay/lag.
Spoiler
How to tell if someone is force lagging?
Spoiler
This one is obvious, if they are skipping a ton, but don't delay, and live in the US, then they are forcing lag. If the person is hittable when your sword slashes them, then they aren't delaying, just lagging. This can be forced by downloading content, lag switching, tin foil, or being very far away from your router.
If you don't want to get warned or banned for excessive cheating, and you are using a wireless connection, then just stay as close as you can to your modem.
It doesn't matter if the server is at 4,000 players online, you shouldn't have more than 100 ms difference from the average ms you have during < 3,000.
How to tell is someone is force delaying?
USA and delay?
Spoiler
Very easy, if their flag shows USA, and they delay, then it's a vpn or some other method they use. Just for educational purposes, I will let you know. I have no idea how to use a vpn, but here are the methods:
1. VPN, no idea how to use this, but now that flags are geo-located, if you delay and live in the us, then you are cheating. If your flag is constantly changing, then you are using a vpn. "Just took my private jet to travel to x country in less than 5 minutes, and wow... these hats are expensive"
2. Uploading a video to youtube (This will cause huge amounts of delay, and you will be warping a lot, so it's obviously forced)
3. Using a program like netlimiter, or net balancer. Very new to this. For Netlimiter you would have to upload a video on another browser, while controlling it's upload speed, in order to cause delay (what I was able to figure out on a trial version)
Net balancer let's you straight up add a delay, very easy to use. Anything above 80-100, and you start skipping a lot, so it becomes obvious that it's forced.
There might be other methods, which I don't I don't know about. People say using 3g causes delay, idk.
International and Delay?
Spoiler
You could say that people who don't live in the US "can't help it", but it turns out that they can. After sparring a lot of different international players, I figured out one thing. When you're delaying cleanly, you shouldn't be warping. When you are warping, then you are forcing delay, plain and simple.
They can use the same methods above, and more. People are using their flag as an excuse to have massive amounts of delay and lag. I always like to use shiden as an example. Lives in japan, he delays, but he never warps, natural delay. Delay + warp? Forced, especially when you have to hit ahead 4-5 seconds for every hit.
So, in conclusion. USA shouldn't delay, anyone delaying even slightly is forced.
International players shouldn't be skipping a lot, forced delay.
To the age old question. Is there an advantage to delaying? Yes there is.
Without delay, I can go 4/5:1 in mixed room. In side rooms, probably 8/10:1.
With delay, forced at 600+ (With warping), 10:1 in mixed room, 20:1 in side rooms.
People will say, but delay is easy to beat. Yeah, when you are constantly fighting that person, you can get used to them, but after you forget when to hit, especially when their ms is changing, every once in a while, then they have a huge advantage. They are constantly sparring at that ms, so it's just another normal spar for them, all they have to do is swing early, like they always do.
Also, if anyone wants to help, I might start making a list for the average delay that each country should have.
I could say that x person delays too much or warps too much, but if it's very similar to 20+ other pkayers, then you are safe. If it's way higher, then it's forced. Hopefully, I can get the list done by the end of the month.
Darkk
04-07-2016 11:15 PM
-My theory (probs wrong):
-Natural delay: Consistent, for example the delay would be exactly 0.5 seconds and wouldn't change.
-VPN/intentional delay: The delay would be changing everytime you hit them, for example the delay could range between 0.5 seconds and 1.5 seconds. Note; this doesn't mean they vpn, aboods delay is like this and is always changing (changing mid spar.) This is why people struggle with certain delayers, because predicting is impossible. Consistently warping is a vpn, if your wifi connection is unstable you would freeze and warp or the app would disconnect you.
To test the theory line delayers up in a gh and hit them timing the delay between the sword swing and hit connection. Then try alt accounts on vpns.
When my wifis all good I have a 0.5 second delay according to most. Other Australian's such as Surge and Alex delay far more (probs 1 second, surge could be more.)
Hard to determine a countries average delay, Japan has shiden and his fibre optic router.
If ms helps I average between 190-220.
Aguzo
04-08-2016 03:46 AM
Quote:
Posted by Darkk
(Post 693139)
If ms helps I average between 190-220.
Yep, seems like anyone with more than this starts to become unstable and laggy. Which would then indicate that it's being forced. Especially when it's not their every day average, nor do the rest of the players in the same country lag/delay that much.
alexx
04-08-2016 04:17 AM
You can lag if multiple people are using the wifi at once, so your saying that you have to spar only when your on the Internet or you are lagging and using VPN? This sounds super unfair, I'm usually sitting at 215-250 and if more than 3 people are using the wifi I will usually lag, you saying that if that happens and I spar, I should be warned for forcing delay? What?
Zetectic
04-08-2016 04:18 AM
different ISP + internet plan + router = different results
is uploading a vid to youtube make u appear laggy in server, but not laggy on ur screen?
Aguzo
04-08-2016 05:07 AM
Quote:
Posted by Zetectic
(Post 693262)
different ISP + internet plan + router = different results
is uploading a vid to youtube make u appear laggy in server, but not laggy on ur screen?
it makes you look laggy on another connection, while on your screen you look smooth.
Quote:
Posted by alexx
(Post 693261)
You can lag if multiple people are using the wifi at once, so your saying that you have to spar only when your on the Internet or you are lagging and using VPN? This sounds super unfair, I'm usually sitting at 215-250 and if more than 3 people are using the wifi I will usually lag, you saying that if that happens and I spar, I should be warned for forcing delay? What?
Actually, it's unfair for everyone else. When someone delays + lag, that's a huge advantage, and very annoying to spar against. When family is using the internet, I stop sparring. For me, it's because if I lag I'll do very bad, in my case I try to have a clean connection at all times.
Zetectic
04-08-2016 05:23 AM
@USA players delay part- if they live in rural area or have bad ISP, it can cause them to have some delay or lag. though it's unfair, classic will never force someone to get a better wifi.
u should add the quote where thallen explained about the router-server hop. understanding that concept is pretty important imo.
alexx
04-08-2016 05:44 AM
Quote:
Posted by Aguzo
(Post 693269)
it makes you look laggy on another connection, while on your screen you look smooth.
Actually, it's unfair for everyone else. When someone delays + lag, that's a huge advantage, and very annoying to spar against. When family is using the internet, I stop sparring. For me, it's because if I lag I'll do very bad, in my case I try to have a clean connection at all times.
I wasn't saying this for me. I don't usually queue when I'm warping because I usually suck when it happens and it backfires on me most of the time. This is just for the majority of the laggy community who do spar while they warp, it's not like there going to tell there family to get of the Internet because they want to spar?? Lag can usually backfire on the host as well, so excluding a big chunk of the spar community because of there family using there own internet is a stupid idea and graal would just be crazy with bans, assuming everyone who's warping is a vpner because of this thread and who knows how lenient they will be when it comes to 4K + people online.
David
04-08-2016 05:51 AM
just learn how to spar them, it's really not a huge advantage at all.
Aguzo
04-08-2016 06:19 AM
It is when you have a very huge amount of delay, and the server is at 4k or something. Which then would be the server's fault, and not really the person delaying.
But yeah, if you have delay, and spar during 4k, you will win a lot easier than sparing at night or mornings, just because of the extra ms. Plus some people use 4k as an excuse to force lag/warp, which makes it even easier for them to win. Cause, they see you smoothly on screen, but you see them warping constantly.
Quote:
Posted by alexx
(Post 693281)
This is just for the majority of the laggy community who do spar while they warp, it's not like there going to tell there family to get of the Internet because they want to spar?? so excluding a big chunk of the spar community because of there family using there own internet is a stupid idea.
No, people like to use that as an excuse to start lagging right before they start sparring.
The whole, everyone does it is dumb, because now that a lot of people are abusing the rules. Everyone thinks it's okay, and they say, "if that person does it, then I can do it too."
David
04-08-2016 06:25 AM
I fundamentally disagree with the premise that lag or delay makes sparring easier for someone. I can imagine that it makes it just as annoying and inconvenient for them. There are a million average delayers, a couple really good ones. Just like there are a million average sparrers who don't delay and a handful of really good ones.
No difference.
Aguzo
04-08-2016 06:31 AM
I've tested it against a lot of people including you. I don't know how long ago it was, but using excessive amount of delay, I was able to streak off of you pretty easily. The matches were boring and long, but I barely had to try to even win.
There is a difference
When the person knows how to take advantage of their delay, it's makes all the difference.
David
04-08-2016 06:39 AM
are you talking about your 1000-50 lagged-out-of-this-world sideroom account? I don't think that counts.
When you try out delay, then your opinion will be taken into consideration.
4k with 500-600ms, even 300 will do. You will have a fairly easy time against anyone. 180-220, you have to try a little. 220-300, a little less, and the higher you go, the less you have to try.
David
04-08-2016 06:55 AM
I've sparred while on vacation in Montenegro and it was a nightmare. I was averaging ~400ms.
Completely got destroyed by high to mid-tier sparrers at the time and I tried to even go mega defensive. "I win marginally more often when I lag myself to no end, therefore every single person who lags or delays has an easier time sparring against anyone."
