Posted by Prynce

Graal iClassic has no auto-ban for using CheatEngine, and you still are able to use CE for speed-hacking/wall-hacking/health-hacking, it really isn't that hard if you know how to use your brain.

I believe there was an autoban in effect last year, since it can detect third-party programs. I'm not sure what you intend to dig at with your last statement, but most of the PC users know that cheatengine is an unfair advantage, and should honestly never be used. I'm not sure if you can stil call it unfair if we don't use the program, though...

Also, can iPhones still use iFile to warp via grab gani replacement like in 2011? That's unfair IMO.  

No, there only is an autoban on PC Servers, for example UN will insta ban you for "using hacking tools", but this server will not. The RC will report speedhackers only, I think (don't qoute me on this), but anything else will not be detected.

And, oh with my last statement I wanted to add some satire. iPhone players can do alternative accounts, who cares? And so does Craig, already 3 alternative accounts, keep going man.

To your last statement, that's also invalid. If you alternate your gani-files, you'll be autobanned, it's easy to detect.  

I don't even know why the conversation has changed to hacking. It has zero relevance to the argument because there is no one who is even regularly accused or even suspected of hacking in the spar community on iClassic. Let's not turn this into Unholy Nation, some of us left that server because of how dramatic and weird that community is.

Posted by Prynce

hi comyt, hi thallen

I started doing that in response to multiple people doing the same to me when I am streaking in the main room and I've continued to do it because it's actually fun and convenient for me. It doesn't matter anyway, because I've been #1 on my main account on the FB leaderboard for about 90% of the new season. People literally change rooms and avoid me and it's often hard for me to get in multiple spars at a time on my main account.

Comyt probably does it for the same reason. Either PC or iDevice can idle up an alternate account so it's another issue that is moot in this conversation, anyone can do it. If alternate accounts were disabled, nothing would change really, you'd just see only one of us on the leaderboard, not five. It's fun to make the leaderboard my personal Enguard graffiti wall, anyway.

Aren't you this guy? Only pointing fingers because you chose to, I honestly don't even know you.  

I think i've come to the realization theres no possible way for Ash Ketchum and GOAT to give up on this argument. They're just going to pull **** out of thier ass and pretend like they know something.

Like Thallen said earlier, the more we argue, the more we stoop down to their idiotic level.  

Posted by Winter

Also, I can argue that iPhone players have the ability to make a fake "smurf" account to play on and have a /350 deviation rating, and shoot up to the top of the leaderboards in just a day or so. While very annoying, it also throws the rating circulation off balance and causes the leaderboards to be inaccurate repesentations of the "best sparrer". How does an iPhone player defend that?

That leaderboard is so stupid. People will create second accounts to take up space, stop sparring afraid to lose their place, drop majorly losing to someone on a second account, etc. I honestly don't know how people can stand it. I think it should honestly follow Gamecenters style of having of having wins or W/L ratio as the leaderboard so there's no more double accounts. Better yet, keep the old one and add it along with it.

As for the PC having advantages it does. Screen doesn't really matter anymore since iDevice's are granted the ability to zoom out. Controls though allow the player to perform actions an iDevice player cannot. According to the above posts the PC has also introduced controllers as sparring weapons. Although I can't prove the swords passing through PC sparrers without a video, I do believe they do. In fact, nothing is going to be proven until someone makes a video of gameplay where it happens. This has been another wonderful circle of PC argument that has gotten absolutely no where. This is just a complaining thread now.  

^^^
Also PC users come and PK and can do wall spar without a wall AND THEY RUN SO QUICKLY!  

Posted by Tyler

That leaderboard is so stupid. People will create second accounts to take up space, stop sparring afraid to lose their place, drop majorly losing to someone on a second account, etc. I honestly don't know how people can stand it. I think it should honestly follow Gamecenters style of having of having wins or W/L ratio as the leaderboard so there's no more double accounts. Better yet, keep the old one and add it along with it.

I agree for the most part and would be in support if the leaderboards and spar rating in general was changed to be restricted to a single account per IP, but that'll never happen for multiple reasons.

I don't think a wins leaderboard makes all that much sense for sparrers. It does for PKing, but the ratio makes a little more sense for sparring. Overall, the points system is the best way to reflect sparring ranks but could be improved in a few small ways. Even as it is right now, I think they usually reflect who the best sparrers are at any given time anyway.  

I have yet to see a legitimate/proper explanation of why PC players have an advantage over iOS sparrers besides the ability to strafe. Everyone claims to have provided sufficient evidence, however they have been shut down every single time and continue to think they're right.

please, provide some valid arguments.  

Posted by Prynce

No, there only is an autoban on PC Servers, for example UN will insta ban you for "using hacking tools", but this server will not. The RC will report speedhackers only, I think (don't qoute me on this), but anything else will not be detected.

To your last statement, that's also invalid. If you alternate your gani-files, you'll be autobanned, it's easy to detect.

So it is unfair that PC users have access to cheatengine because they can use it to "speedhack"" (change values), although you admit that it automatically reports you for using it? Yes, that is what I meant by autoban, because you pretty much are found out, and have about a 100% chance of a ban. Also, there were players not to long ago that used cheatengine to give themselves tons of gralats, and they were found out almost instantaneously. The same occurred when people would warp with the glove gani.

We do have Graal Police, you know? If you think someone is unfair on any device, you have the power and responsibility to report them. There is no reason people like you should be complaining about cheating, hacking, or anything like this. Completely irrelevant.

To be honest, I have come across so many more players using third-party programs on PC servers than iClassic. You are incorrect: They are not caught and "insta banned". These type of "hacks" share similar properties with computer viruses, even regular viruses in real life.

Altering .gani files autobans now? Well, that's a step up then. Then again, that means you are altering your actual game files, not using a third-party program to change the values. Fairly easy script detection. In this case, it sounds like staff just took care of unfair iPhone activity before PC activity. (Wait... Weren't iPhones here years before computers? Fishy...)

Posted by Crono

#Easier to do on PC imo.

I'm not sure... I've never done it, so I can't compare.

Posted by Tyler

As for the PC having advantages it does. Screen doesn't really matter anymore since iDevice's are granted the ability to zoom out. Controls though allow the player to perform actions an iDevice player cannot. According to the above posts the PC has also introduced controllers as sparring weapons. Although I can't prove the swords passing through PC sparrers without a video, I do believe they do. In fact, nothing is going to be proven until someone makes a video of gameplay where it happens. This has been another wonderful circle of PC argument that has gotten absolutely no where. This is just a complaining thread now.

While a keyboard can perform actions an iPhone cannot, I do not believe (in my opinion) that it is all that necessary, and it does not provide the player with more speed. In fact, I feel slower when I strafe because I am fighting to move in either direction, so I move in neither. To me, the lack of this movement makes iPhone players seem much smoother than PC. Also, a video of gameplay only shows one screen, and one point of view. There are also technical flaws (was it meant to be that way?) in the way Graal is scripted that many PC players just so happen to have more experience with, due to their tendency to have much more experience on the game than many iPhone players.
~
Someone should make a PC vs iPhone complaint thread, and all arguments would belong there... This is pretty pathetic that no real spar discussion can end in anything except conflicting opinions of an irrelevant topic. Don't reply to me, and don't reply to anyone else about the device "issues". This is not the place.  

Ok ok, go on your iPhone or what ever you have and spar a really good PC user, take note of their speed, turns, how they move, sword hits and literally almost everything.

@Rezon  

Posted by Thallen

"Let's spar. You spar on whatever device you're the best on, and I'll do the same."

Explain to me how you counter that statement and use the device you or your opponent is using as a crutch and excuse.

Still looking for an answer.  

Posted by Xenthic

Ok ok, go on your iPhone or what ever you have and spar a really good PC user, take note of their speed, turns, how they move, sword hits and literally almost everything.

@Rezon

Within your own post lies the answer to this entire argument. And as for the rest of the crap, its all placebo and its a pride thing that makes you delusional.  

Posted by Thallen

Still looking for an answer.

Get comyt, he seems to have high hate against PC.

(Sorry if your wondering my posts are late the other post appears before mine)  

Posted by Xenthic

Get comyt, he seems to have high hate against PC.

Comyt doesn't whine anymore about PC, or less than he used to. He realized that the PC doesn't have any advantages, and it is just a different medium to play on. Comyt is probably the best iDevice sparrer, and can beat great ones on PC.  

Posted by Thallen

There are 2 reasons why an iDevice sparrer would refuse to spar on PC:

1. They prefer to spar on iDevice (which I can only attribute to being because they feel that they spar better on their iDevice).
2. They do not have a PC.

Now try and explain to me:

1. Why should any PC player bend to your whim and spar on the device that you clearly prefer and are advantaged by?
2. Why is it my fault that you don't have a PC?

The argument of "Only the real sparrers uses iDevice because it requires more skill!" translates to nothing to me. What makes you think that? Why does it require more skill?

Are you under the impression that the ability to move with more precision (which is arguable as I've seen several people able to use touchscreen more effectively than a keyboard) and strafe somehow removes any portion of skill required to win a spar? That sounds completely backwards to me. More variables and elements of gameplay always contribute to a higher skill cap.

You can't say, "PC players should all switch to iDevice because PC is clearly the more advantaged platform." How does that even make sense? You're claiming that the platform that is generally considered to be the worse of the two, in terms of effectiveness in spar, should be the gold standard? That's like suggesting that a football player should play in dress shoes instead of cleats and then insisting that, because it feels more uncomfortable and difficult, that it somehow requires more skill. That's not how it goes.
You are the ones with the complaint and claims of being disadvantaged, so if you want to fix the problem then you will be the one to switch platforms.

You can get butthurt over it or you can accept it, but there are facts you must consider and accept:

• Graal comes from a standalone PC client. Sparring was a concept designed around use of the keyboard.
• The majority of PC sparrers are better than you because they come from years of experience on that Graal.
• Just because someone spars on a PC does not give them some unrivaled edge over you.
• If PC players are so inherently good, then common sense would say to play Graal from your PC if you're interested in winning more.

So in conclusion, every time you use an excuse that relates to a player using a certain device and only being better than you for that reason, you're making a joke out of yourself. If anything, you should feel blessed that more PC players haven't grabbed a bluetooth keyboard for their iDevice and come to wreck you in the iDevice room.

With that out of the way, I'm 100% sure I'd 7-0 you in a series. For the sake of the argument, we'll say you 7-0 me on iDevice. Okay. What was proven? What's left? Me on PC, you on iDevice? You on iDevice, me on PC? At the end of the day, both of us have the choice to play on whatever device we want. You would choose iDevice and I would choose PC, and I'd consistently beat you. That sounds like your problem, not mine. You clearly have the option of "leveling the playing field" and you refuse to, so stop complaining.

Posted by Thallen

iDevice users who pin the PC platform as your excuse to losing to certain sparrers:
I encourage you to read Playing to Win.

I've played several online games competitively and love referring people to this book and the articles on it. Let me just quote a few passages here that directly apply to some things I've read in this thread.

In reference to claiming that using a PC is cheap or unfair:


In reference to claiming that the PC is better but (for some reason) not using it:


In reference to the higher-skilled sparring community overcoming these gripes:


When you want to play any game at the highest level (and yes, I know that almost sounds satirical when talking about little ol' Graal), you find a way to win that is within the bounds of what is allowed on the game. When you tell me that I am not as skilled as you after I beat you by using one of the elements of the game, you are making it painfully clear that:

• You are a scrub
• You do not play to win
• You are ashamed to admit that you were defeated

With that being said, I hope that every PC player who is harassed for choosing to play on their preferred platform is strong-minded enough to never let the scrub get to you. The only way that they can prove that they are more skilled than you is if they beat you.

Posted by Thallen

"Let's spar. You spar on whatever device you're the best on, and I'll do the same."

Explain to me how you counter that statement and use the device you or your opponent is using as a crutch and excuse.

There you go.