This thread makes me love living in America.

Posted by Bryan*

role-playing e-thugs

lol'd  

Before I fully understood the spar mechanics I'd often think those who were using them properly were hacking. It took me a long time of active sparring to change my views on this.

A lot of gps don't actively spar and could perceive sparrers using mechanics to their advantage as hacking, when I didn't know much about it I did the exact same thing.
All these people such as red, bryan and kuz are trying to say is that some admins don't understand the game as they don't really explore that aspect of it, and should leave the moderating of that part to those more experienced.  

Posted by Albie

Before I fully understood the spar mechanics I'd often think those who were using them properly were hacking. It took me a long time of active sparring to change my views on this.

A lot of gps don't actively spar and could perceive sparrers using mechanics to their advantage as hacking, when I didn't know much about it I did the exact same thing.
All these people such as red, bryan and kuz are trying to say is that some admins don't understand the game as they don't really explore that aspect of it, and should leave the moderating of that part to those more experienced.

I get your point but we can't exactly force you guys to be GPs. You gotta sign up like fulgore did and we'd have people more experienced in that particular aspect. Even after this, we are unlikely to have staff who is experienced in this online 24/7, we would eventually have to deal with these situations as well. On one hand, the ones who are experienced in it could sign up and you guys could also give your opinions and suggestions on this particular area as well.  

Posted by Bryan*

If a GP doesn't have any in-game knowledge about the aspects of iClassic aside from kissing ass to the right people, I don't see why they should moderate the game. Just because you have a clean slate and I don't, doesn't mean you know more than me when it comes to the activities mentioned. If you aren't familiar with what is expected of you, then how do you expect to excel at your position?

Idk why you're acting like the current GPs don't know anything about the game. I don't nobody who has "kissed ass" to get to their position. Maybe in the past, yes, but right now no.

Also, when GPs are hired they have to go through specific tests. Higher ups don't just message you "congrats you're a GP now good luck!" They make sure that they're familiar with certain aspects of the game.

It doesn't take much to understand aspects of the game. You aren't required to be good at them, but rather understand how it works, and I'm quite sure the current staff team is familiar with those aspects.

Also, nice usage of overthinking and exaggerating my statements. We're all considered social players, however, some of us are equipped to do things better than others (PK-Spar-Towering-etc).

You've been using generalization as well, so as long as we both know we're doing it I don't see the harm.

On a side note: don't think it's right for an admin to be violating someone's privacy for their own personal vendetta.

Don't really know what you're referring to  

i don't mind people like contego, james205, clops, sarah, thallen having a moderator power in the arena(player moderator). they have been around here for awhile now and gained huge trust from everyone.

it's always better to have someone who's expert in the field, than just an outsider.  

Posted by Zetectic

i don't mind people like contego, james205, clops, sarah, thallen having a moderator power in the arena(player moderator). they have been around here for awhile now and gained huge trust from everyone.

it's always better to have someone who's expert in the field, than just an outsider.

The thing is, there is no need for people who only moderate the arena. If one of those players were to be hired, they would be required to moderate all of Graal.

In all honesty, most reports that have to do with sparring are just "this person is hacking". It's very easy to tell when someone is hacking, but other times it isn't as obvious, and at the point you need to give staff a break, because not everyone has a perfect eye.

Staff won't ban someone for lagging, unless they can prove that the lag/delay is intentional. The worst a person will get is maybe a disconnect.  

Posted by CM

The thing is, there is no need for people who only moderate the arena. If one of those players were to be hired, they would be required to moderate all of Graal.

In all honesty, most reports that have to do with sparring are just "this person is hacking". It's very easy to tell when someone is hacking, but other times it isn't as obvious, and at the point you need to give staff a break, because not everyone has a perfect eye.

Staff won't ban someone for lagging, unless they can prove that the lag/delay is intentional. The worst a person will get is maybe a disconnect.

I think all that they're really trying to say is they want someone with a more "perfect eye" to tell the difference in regards to those kinds of reports. I think the core argument on each side got blown out of proportion.  

Posted by ReD s.

I average 223-300ms, I live in a semi rural area so there is nothing I can do to stop it.
Don't no why any other admin besides fulgore is patrolling the arena most of them are zanza members who have never actually PLAYED graal.

Wow, so you have to have 10k spar wins to actually be a graal player? you're so full of yourself it disgusts me.

I wonder why you aren't being hired when you constantly berate staff members on the forums?? Maybe because it shows how much of an asshole you are? food for thought to everyone who has nothing to say but how awful it is they aren't staff and how awful the staff team with no actual basing other than "lol they play the game they want to, they don't actually count as people, let me throw in some guilds that only like 4 of the staff members were actually in"

zanza has been dead for ages. most of the staff members in it now are just friends who became friends after they became staff. Wow, isn't it weird that they are in the same guild??

If you can't put two and two together, no, it isn't.

edit: I've put more thought into your post and realized a few things. I'm glad you think that staff members aren't the same as you. It would be a catastrophe if they were.

Posted by Thallen

The complete disconnect in communication between staff and players when it comes to this is awful. Sugar was banned and has no idea why. Even if she could appeal, she doesn't speak English well enough to defend herself. It's way too easy to ban players like that for as long as you want and get away with it. I'll bet the staff member that warned you can't fluently explain how latency works, etc. Just dumb people doing what they think is the right thing.

There's also this weird new thing going around where people are allegedly getting warned or banned for "inappropriate PMs" to people they're having a consenting conversation with. Zicknex mentioned it happening to him once before, and now Alex just told me about it. Super weird that GPs can even read PM history when a block feature exists... If two people are PMing, I don't see why they shouldn't be able to curse or do whatever the hell they want as long as they aren't reporting each other.

You can't seriously be this blind, can you? Do you not see all the people in Graal City asking for 13 year olds to trade nudes with and ****? "rp ;) girls only" has no place on a kids game, or really any game that isn't made specifically for it. There are places for that, and, wow, big surprise, it isn't Graal. Try one of those stupid roleplay apps or forums or whatever they are, I know they exist, I don't care to find them. take it to kik or something even, if you do that on a game rated 4+ or 8+ or whatever unixmad decided it was this month, you deserve to be banned for being that stupid.

And maybe, just maybe, they were reported? Think about it. How else would a GP just happen to find this particular player who was doing inappropriate things in PM out of the 4,000 that are online?

ffs



it's no wonder that so many of the competent staff quit, I don't know how they put up with this bull****.  

Posted by Fulgore

I think all that they're really trying to say is they want someone with a more "perfect eye" to tell the difference in regards to those kinds of reports. I think the core argument on each side got blown out of proportion.

I also think it would be great to have a staff team full with people with a "perfect eye" but it's not just about that, you also have to be able to deal with other aspects as a GP, including being able to have a civilized discussion when a team member doesn't necessarily agree with you and just by looking at this thread, a lot of people who might have a "perfect eye" are not able to do that

Although I do agree with you, both arguments were exaggerated I think.  

Posted by Count

Wow, so you have to have 10k spar wins to actually be a graal player? you're so full of yourself it disgusts me.

I wonder why you aren't being hired when you constantly berate staff members on the forums?? Maybe because it shows how much of an asshole you are? food for thought to everyone who has nothing to say but how awful it is they aren't staff and how awful the staff team with no actual basing other than "lol they play the game they want to, they don't actually count as people, let me throw in some guilds that only like 4 of the staff members were actually in"

zanza has been dead for ages. most of the staff members in it now are just friends who became friends after they became staff. Wow, isn't it weird that they are in the same guild??

If you can't put two and two together, no, it isn't.



Are you seriously this ignorant or are you just pretending? Do you not see all the people in Graal City asking for 13 year olds to trade nudes with and ****? "rp ;) girls only" has no place on a kids game, or really any game that isn't made specifically for it. There are places for that, and, wow, big surprise, it isn't Graal. Try one of those stupid roleplay apps or forums or whatever they are, I know they exist, I don't care to find them. take it to kik or something even, if you do that on a game rated 4+ or 8+ or whatever unixmad decided it was this month, you deserve to be banned for being that stupid.

And maybe, just maybe, they were reported? Think about it. How else would a GP just happen to find this particular player who was doing inappropriate things in PM out of the 4,000 that are online?

ffs



it's no wonder that so many of the competent staff quit, I don't know how they put up with this bull****.

The difference is, the people who are getting these warnings clearly aren't the kind of people doing rp in Graal City, (I agree the ones in Graal City doing that are fine to be banned). I imagine they're just swearing in pms and it's getting checked, which is odd unless one person reports the other for something they're saying to each other in pms.  

If a person was reported for doing something inappropriate, the GPs will have to cover all bases of the investigation. Even if the report did not specify anything about PMs, staff members still have to look at them since the inappropriate behavior could have easily ensued over PM.

The report may have also been made by a less experience player, who maybe doesn't know what a PM is, or maybe the reporter just forgot to include that it was over PM. All of these factors have to be taken into consideration when investigating a report.  

Posted by Fulgore

The difference is, the people who are getting these warnings clearly aren't the kind of people doing rp in Graal City, (I agree the ones in Graal City doing that are fine to be banned). I imagine they're just swearing in pms and it's getting checked, which is odd unless one person reports the other for something they're saying to each other in pms.

exactly, what I'm saying is no GP is going to find you swearing in pms out of the 4k online unless you are reported by the other person.

But if I'm wrong, we're talking about Sexual Misconduct, right? And from what I've seen of all the people complaining about it, and simply its name, that is for doing inappropriate things on the game (nudes through kik, dirty roleplay, etc). But if the people doing it were a little smarter, they would be asking for these things off the game and leading interested parties away from the game so it isn't Graal's problem. Fortunately for GPs, anyone doing this on graal in the first place is not very intelligent since they can't find any of the online places for this.

I'm glad we agree that those in Graal City should be banned for it, but shouldn't anyone asking for nudes on kik be banned? Are we just not talking about the same offence?  

Posted by Count

exactly, what I'm saying is no GP is going to find you swearing in pms out of the 4k online unless you are reported by the other person.

But if I'm wrong, we're talking about Sexual Misconduct, right? And from what I've seen of all the people complaining about it, and simply its name, that is for doing inappropriate things on the game (nudes through kik, dirty roleplay, etc). But if the people doing it were a little smarter, they would be asking for these things off the game and leading interested parties away from the game so it isn't Graal's problem. Fortunately for GPs, anyone doing this on graal in the first place is not very intelligent since they can't find any of the online places for this.

I'm glad we agree that those in Graal City should be banned for it, but shouldn't anyone asking for nudes on kik be banned? Are we just not talking about the same offence?

I agree, but what I'm saying is that these people who we are now discussing aren't doing that, they're just getting pms checked (supposedly) and then action is taken. I don't think it was sexual misconduct as the offense but I haven't heard personally from these people, so I can't be 100% sure I guess. In my opinion, if it's just swearing or something among two people having an extended conversation, one person should just block the other person if need be, instead of trying to bait them into further discussion and then report them to try and get them banned or something.  

Posted by Fulgore

I agree, but what I'm saying is that these people who we are now discussing aren't doing that, they're just getting pms checked (supposedly) and then action is taken. I don't think it was sexual misconduct as the offense but I haven't heard personally from these people, so I can't be 100% sure I guess. In my opinion, if it's just swearing or something among two people having an extended conversation, one person should just block the other person if need be, instead of trying to bait them into further discussion and then report them to try and get them banned or something.

ah alright, I didn't think swearing in PMs was an actual offense (unless it's really severe, I guess) but hey whatever. I wish the block button was used more, too.  

Posted by Count

anyone doing this on graal in the first place is not very intelligent since they can't find any of the online places for this.