Post by Darkk

"Here is a video of a delayer using minimal delay and strong delay. Note it's the first time he's used pc.

Feel free to debate as to wether delay is advantageous or not.

Additionally, dark is looking for an American to series where they both record their screams simultaneously to determine if delay gives dark an advantage

 

I quit watching because even with his small delay or larger delay, you're sparring made me cringe and I couldn't help it.  

Posted by McCullough

I quit watching because even with his small delay or larger delay, you're sparring made me cringe and I couldn't help it.

Yep sparring him with the larger delay obviously can't land a hit.
pretty sure you're the cringy guy here atm do you even know the difference of your and you're lol  

barely an advantage, many people who are foreign either don't know how to abuse it or just suck.

I personally would ditch my delay w/o question, I dislike not being able to combo other delayers and I feel I would spar better w/o it.

20k wins in and I still suck tho so what value does my opinion hold.  

Posted by Red

20k wins in and I still suck tho so what value does my opinion hold.

i see what you did there, It's like when you buy a ferrari and complain that you're poor because you can't buy a lambo  

The only advantage delay holds in my opinion is if you're an extremely defensive C-sparrer who stall spars by waiting for their opponent to rush them and get hit or tie.  

If you aren't decent at spar to begin with, then it can give you an advantage. Delaying tactics are easier to pull off as opposed to legit ones.

Obviously it all depends on the person though.  

Posted by CaptainOscar

i see what you did there, It's like when you buy a ferrari and complain that you're poor because you can't buy a lambo

^^^^^^^^^^^^^  

Why people rage
Non Delayers reason for raging
MOST people who don't delay enjoy sparring other people who don't delay because they can just spar without having to adjust to another persons delay (rather than patiently aiming for the large area of space ahead of the person)
Delayers reason for raging
Delayers are always stuck with delay, they can't help it. To them the whole entire sparring game is about patience and trying to aim ahead of somebody, they have become 100% used to doing it because thats the way graal forces them to play.
Adjusting
Delayer vs Delayer, both need to adjust to the hitbox differences.
Delayer vs nondelayer, the delayer doesn't have to adjust because he is used to his own delay, while the nondelayer has to adjust to the delayers hitbox.
nondelayer vs nondelayer, more skilled sparrer wins.
Advantage
In reality its not a huge advantage but having to adjust to somebodies hitbox to win a spar is still an advantage for the person who doesn't have to adjust.

"Get used to sparring delayers" well obviously you shouldn't complain and should just get used to it because delayers can't help it(unless their VPNing)
should be fixed tbh
Delay is something the game needs to fix somehow, it barely exists on Client Graal despite what country people are from, yet on iclassic it totally changes the sparring game.

Posted by Yog

If you aren't decent at spar to begin with, then it can give you an advantage. Delaying tactics are easier to pull off as opposed to legit ones.

Obviously it all depends on the person though.

Also true^ starting off as a noob with delay is easier than starting off as a noob without delay in spar

conclusion
delay is annoying af but unitl something is done about it by graal, dont complain, just learn to adapt. even tho it sucks ass  

It's not an inherent advantage, but it can put you in advantageous situations against certain sparrers. The main thing is that is weakens sparrers who rely on fast reaction time, offensive moves, comboing, etc. It moves the dial in a spar from it being a test of who's better with mechanics and capitalizing on mistakes to a test of who's better at predicting their opponent.

I don't think it's much of an advantage, but a lot of people allow it to seem like it is because they either don't enjoy sparring against delayers or they aren't good at it… There's a way to spar them, so proving "delay is an advantage" by saying you're good against non-delayers but bad against delayers doesn't prove anything, it just shows that you're bad with being patient, prediction, etc.  

The only possible argument I could see for it being an advantage is that someone who delays is more adjusted to their delay than someone who hasn't sparred them many times. This can basically be fixed by sparring more, but most people rage before that happens.

Outside of that, it's just a different type of spar.  

I'm going to go with yes it can give you an advantage.

- When you have delay you always have delay vs anyone you spar
- When you don't have delay you get a more mixed bag in terms of other players connection
- When I was in Japan it only took me a few spars until I got the bait moves down. It was much much more easier for me to hit people and not get myself in trouble. For me more delay would make it even easier I just needed to be more patient then more consistency came.
- Gsing with delay playing defensive is pretty easy and running in and getting a quick hit almost feels like you have a delay barrier. The problem though some teams will just avoid you until the end.
- Going back to Japan to USA it took me a really long time to adjust back to no delay because a lot of those bait moves don't work and it's like resetting your brain.

And some other notes:
- If you have a lot of delay and terrible at spar you can win more vs someone who is terrible with no delay.
- For delay to give you advantage the person also needs to get used to the delay and bait moves. Reason why bait moves work so well is because it can throw off a sparrers muscle memory completely.
- Delay in spar in my opinion ruins sparring for new people trying to get into it.
- While sparring is competitive within the little group of sparrers, it would be 100x more competitive if the delay issue was ever fixed (or improved).
- The expectation going into spar for a new player vs what graal spar is completely contradicts the entire concept.

I've gotten used to sparring it for so many years so I don't mind it much but I do think about what if delay wasn't a thing in graal and how much more competitive sparring/pking would be in general for consistency purposes.

Overall it's the games fault, not the delayers so it's just whatever.

Just my opinion on the issue and not going to debate anyone about it.  

The advantage is my field(PK) is pretty minimal... In even spar if you can't spar vs delay than you have to improve. For new players facing delays is a massive disadvantage, but after you've improved, learned how certain countries/regions delay it shouldn't be so hard for you. It certainly shouldn't be used as an excuse; I honestly bet most people who have delay really wouldn't want it... Most. My lack of delay(my ping is 60ms or so, normally) makes it much easier for me to kill steal and pick off 0.5's.

For the record, delayers shouldn't use it as an excuse either. At this point it is a part of the game, and you need to be able to play against it.  

Depends on how much delay the other person has. If it's a lot and the server is lagging, it becomes quite annoying. Once you know when to hit, it's pretty easy. Going from fighting a a delayer to a non-delayer, then a lagger forces you to adapt too much. Add the server lag in, and a lot of the time you have to change your timing multiple times in just a single match.

When there aren't many people on though, around 2k or so, it's pretty easy to beat any delayer, if you know what you're doing. All I can say is that, you will win more consistently against anyone, if you spar enough.

If anything, delay is a disadvantage to how good you could actually be in the long run.  

As a player who used to tower, I found my delay as a disadvantage because It was hard for me to get hits on people inside the flag room, maybe bc it's crowded? Idk the reason but, i found it hard to get hits on people inside the flagroom. However, getting hits on the flag was pretty normal (the hits i do on the flag don't delay).
As a sparrer I find it easy to spar speicific delayers specially pinoys. But, sparribg french people is really annoying since most of them has less delay than pinoys (i would say most of the french delayers has an advantage) most of them has medium delay except sarah and few others. I think the people with medium delay are the ones who has the advantage since it's not as hard for them to predict their opponent. Sparrers with long delayers areeasy fod me, unless if they have a lot of expeirnce in using the C style. In general i would say peoole with short delay is a disadvantage, medium delay is an advantage, long delay can be either an advantage or disadvantage.
I don't mind people disagreeing with my opinions.