what jwd said... ive been missing a project management structure/approach on graal projects entirely...

rarely is anything ever coordinated

iclassic seems to be having an okayish structure though


people really need a structured environment, especially artists, else its all chaos and stuff doesnt get done

needs an eye on human resource management too though so it doesnt feel too much like a factory and also a special confidential person or team for the staffs to relay their problems to or for motivational purposes  

Posted by Elk

what jwd said... ive been missing a project management structure/approach on graal projects entirely...

rarely is anything ever coordinated

iclassic seems to be having an okayish structure though


people really need a structured environment, especially artists, else its all chaos and stuff doesnt get done

needs an eye on human resource management too though so it doesnt feel too much like a factory and also a special confidential person or team for the staffs to relay their problems to or for motivational purposes

100% agree.

The other thing good structure brings: priorities.

Is the tileset the number one problem facing Zone right now? Will a new tileset make the game more fun?

Personally I don't think so. Graal classic isn't the nicest looking - the tileset, afaik, nearly 20 years old. Era by and large isn't the nicest looking either. Those games do well.

People play games to have fun, not to look at tiles. A nice, consistent style helps big time but it isn't going to fix gameplay. In fact, you waste time on that at the expense of fixing gameplay, you have lost precious time needed to reverse decline. There is only so far you can go - there is a point of no return.  

Posted by jwd

A tileset is a large undertaking and it's difficult to maintain a consistent, refined style. If multiple artists are working on this over time on a hobbyist basis, the end result won't be too great.

In this case, it would be far better to commission a new tileset by a professional with a clear and comprehensive brief.

It's a paid artist outside of Zone. The biggest problem probably is that Zone went through 4 different managers during the time of the artist making the tileset. Each manager wanting something different.

Posted by jwd

100% agree.

The other thing good structure brings: priorities.

Is the tileset the number one problem facing Zone right now? Will a new tileset make the game more fun?

Personally I don't think so.

I agree 100% but I think the tileset is the top priority because that's all anyone can do to help Zone right now. I don't think unixmad is investing coders in Zone to make the needed activities and improvements (Zone has so many bugs it's unbelievable). Coders have been on and off in Zone and a lot of the projects I have heard about them working on have never seen the light of day yet and to my knowledge were scrapped when the next manager of the long list of managers came in and took over.

Even issues that don't require professional coding aren't even addressed. Trading is a major issue. That was "addressed" recently but it was hardly enough. Zone's whole economy is garbage and it ranges from weapon prices to jobs to missions and events. None of it has been fixed, or even attempted to be fixed.  

Posted by PigParty

It's a paid artist outside of Zone. The biggest problem probably is that Zone went through 4 different managers during the time of the artist making the tileset. Each manager wanting something different.

That then means the project did not have a plan. It wouldn't have happened if there was a clear scope, which outlines exactly what's needed including look and feel with examples, plus an outline of deliverables by milestones.

If the scope changes, the contractor must be paid more for their time.

It's simply not fair to put an external contractor through that where they have to redo their work because the project manager changes and their opinion along with it.

The 4th manager should have received the work exactly scoped out by the 1st manager.

Basic, textbook project management failure.

Posted by PigParty

I agree 100% but I think the tileset is the top priority because that's all anyone can do to help Zone right now. I don't think unixmad is investing coders in Zone to make the needed activities and improvements (Zone has so many bugs it's unbelievable). Coders have been on and off in Zone and a lot of the projects I have heard about them working on have never seen the light of day yet and to my knowledge were scrapped when the next manager of the long list of managers came in and took over.

Even issues that don't require professional coding aren't even addressed. Trading is a major issue. That was "addressed" recently but it was hardly enough. Zone's whole economy is garbage and it ranges from weapon prices to jobs to missions and events. None of it has been fixed, or even attempted to be fixed.

I understand your reasoning but then the top priority really is to find the resources that are currently missing to fix the biggest problems.

A new tileset won't fix those problems. It would suck for everybody to waste the effort like that.

The number one priority is to get the resources (I.E programmers, designers) to fix the problems you have identified. Small wins that do actually improve things will help build momentum towards tackling the bigger problems, as well as providing leverage to make a genuine and convincing business case for unixmad to make the investment.

The reason why unixmad isn't investing is because after all this time it isn't an investment worth making. After all, the tileset botch job is a clear example of why he shouldn't make further investment and rightfully so.

There's another thing: Zone is a business. An online game is a business. Unixmad is a businessman. He needs ROI and it don't look like he's got that after all this time.

The proportion of server upkeep for Zone is already a baseline monthly investment. There is no reason to invest more at this point. Anyone would have cut their losses by now

Key thing to remember is that unixmad is putting real money into this and if he's not getting real money out he ain't gonna wanna put more in!  

They need to make the game fun and worthwhile to play, not make it pretty.  

Posted by List

They need to make the game fun and worthwhile to play, not make it pretty.

That's probably the better way of saying it than my dozens of paragraphs lol  

Posted by List

They need to make the game fun and worthwhile to play, not make it pretty.

Yea that matters too but I don't see why a tileset revamp wouldn't work in between  

Posted by List

They need to make the game fun and worthwhile to play, not make it pretty.

they need both. I know quite a few people who I got to try Zone but immediately quit because the tileset literally hurt their eyes. First impressions are everything. The appearance lures people in, but the gameplay gets people to stay.  

You are correct. It's just better to retain who we have than lure people in at this stage. Plus, regular, significant updates works too - a lot of people can past a crap appearance to stay. After all, Graal in general is fugly  

Posted by jwd

You are correct. It's just better to retain who we have than lure people in at this stage. Plus, regular, significant updates works too - a lot of people can past a crap appearance to stay. After all, Graal in general is fugly

With that attitude I hope you never become a developer  

Let's be serious, I meant the tileset that's almost as old as I am. Not your work <3

Besides, "become"... I think I've had my time. I've got a wife and kids plus work full-time as a developer.

It was fun managing Zone and seeing it get launched though ;)  

Posted by TWIZ

With that attitude I hope you never become a developer

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11111/111112059/3231890-2356862208-impli.jpg (Unsupported image host)  

Posted by PigParty

they need both. I know quite a few people who I got to try Zone but immediately quit because the tileset literally hurt their eyes.

That was me lol but i just always play zone with brightness on low made me squint  

Posted by PigParty

I disagree. Zone's tileset is ugly and limited. I want a completely new aspect in Zone. Zone should emphasize planet exploration with various biomes, and the central 'hub' that would act as skyworld would be a spaceship. Zone has the coolest theme with the most potential of any Graal server. It's just not being taken advantage of. Parts of the new tileset look pretty badass and everything I want in Zone's tileset. That **** needs to get done, though. No excuses, especially when the artist is being paid.



This tileset has been in the works for a long ass time now. It started with Tashkin and is still unfinished and unreleased. It's valid to criticize the tileset project for never being used considering its been so long and hasn't seen the light of day yet.

I wish skyworld was changed as a giant space station instead of some random island.  

Don't know if this would be possible, but couldn't we use some of the tiles in the Madrox club? The tiles in there look pretty cool to me, and the sky could be replaced with that space backround from mission 9. I think that would look pretty cool.

Again. Don't know if its possible.