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05-24-2018
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:pluffy:
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Sweden
Posts: 5,945
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It obviously goes beyond guns, and I totally agree with that point, but is the US really fit to continue to dump more into circulation? |
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05-25-2018
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PigParty🐷
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PigPen
Posts: 2,913
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Also, a lot of gun crime you see in U.S. statistics is in cities where there's a lot of gang violence. It's the cliché that the criminals will still have guns. I think guns are an important part of security for the people against the government and just banning or reducing guns doesn't solve the actual problem. These people aren't tryung to kill people because of guns. Yes, guns allow for more loss of life, but the problem is that America doesn't care to tackle the real problems that cause these events to happen in the first place. |
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05-25-2018
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PigParty🐷
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PigPen
Posts: 2,913
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If anyone wants to see a great description of why I think we have mass shootings like this so frequently, check out the last episode from Legion on FX (season 2 episode 8). It had a spectacular segment at the end describing the allegory of the cave, and how technology is the cave and the people we communicate to online are the shadows. We reject that those people are real, and we also reject the real world for the one that we have come to know as real, but is really just shadows. That segment was some of the best and most relevant television I've ever seen.
Last edited by PigParty; 05-25-2018 at 02:36 PM.
Reason: Spelling errors
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05-25-2018
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Dr. Professor Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: I’m always located somewhere
Posts: 1,205
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Because, yeah, isn’t that the point? Guns have much more killing potential than other weapons (knives, cars). You said it yourself... let’s minimize the loss of life. Shouldn’t we make it harder on killers to access weapons that can kill with such potency? I understand the argument of stopping government oppression, but to me the issue of people dying so constantly seems to outweigh our rather archaic need to be armed as citizens. I don’t believe weaponery to even be the most important tool in fighting your own government... strikes (gas stations, hospitals, food production, ect) would be far more potent, without the loss of life. We, the general populous, are what drives society forward... if we wanted to halt the entire country we could just stop going to work. We don’t need guns to do that. Our other issues, to me, seem like a much more complex challenge to solve without drastic changes and (likely) would not be solved in a timely fashion. (1) If we cannot solve the multitude of issues causing this violence quickly, what should/would we do then? Should we just let this continue, and hope for some good fortune? This doesn’t seem like a problem where we can just wait and pray for regression to the mean. (2) What do you think would be actual solutions for tackling the reasons behind violence? What do you think are the real reasons that we are seeing all of this violence? You said that America is struggling to tackle the real problems causing the violence, but notably left off what these problems are. To be able to debate with you I need to know what you’re suggesting instead. |
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05-26-2018
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PigParty🐷
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PigPen
Posts: 2,913
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As for what the problem is, I already explained what I believe the problem is. To me, it's cultural. It won't be fixed by government. Technology is the problem. It dehumanizes and radicalizes people. That's why mental health care is so important now. Technology is causing the problems. It's actually funny when I hear people say video games and movies make people go on killing sprees and I'm thinking that it's stuff like facebook and Twitter that make people go on killing sprees. There's a whole separate world online. Back to me plugging the great show - Legion on FX. The last episode had a great segment that pretty much makes my entire argument about technology. |
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05-26-2018
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Dr. Professor Moderator
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: I’m always located somewhere
Posts: 1,205
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Comparing the first and second amendments is like comparing apples and oranges. One of these is not just a pillar of our country, but a pillar of most modern societies (there are some exceptions, but we tend to view these countries with disdain... as we should, I think). Free speech is seen as important by most societies, so it’s importance is well displayed. However, the latter does not have nearly the same presence outside of the United States (in this case the freedom to own guns, of course interpretations and wordings differ), which makes me much less confident in it. I think one of the reasons you and I don’t really see eye to eye is that I am unconvinced of the value of the second amendment. You say it’s meant to protect the country... which is plausible, but I believe it to be a rationalization. I don’t think the citizens could actually win a war against the government, regardless of the rifles they could have, and I believe it’s pretty unrealistic to imagine a coup of millions of people storming against the government. Besides this, even if 5 million people decide to rally against the government, they likely wouldn’t represent the people. If the only defense for leaving the 2nd amendment untouched is rising up against the government, then I feel pretty good about saying we should change it to save lives, because that ideal doesn’t seem valuable in comparison to people’s lives. Of course, we may be able to change other things such as mental health to improve things, but I don’t see the value in people having rifles/dangerous firearms regardless, so I’m still in favor of changing the 2nd amendment, loss of life factored in or not.
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05-26-2018
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PigParty🐷
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PigPen
Posts: 2,913
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Even if we were able to repeal the 2nd Amendment, guns are so integrated in American society that it will be the prohibition era all over again. There is legitimacy to the claim that banning guns won't get rid of guns. Ban alcohol, it just goes underground. The government loses any ability to regulate or tax it, meanwhile everyone (including cops back then lol) were consuming alcohol. America isn't the type of society that says a few ruined something for the rest of society. People are individuals. We could easily compare this to murder in general. Way too many people die each year from street violence. We don't simply say all of America loses their right to privacy because the need to catch offenders is so great that it outweighs the right to privacy. The same goes with guns. Just because a select few use guns to commit murder doesn't mean that we outright ban guns. Honestly it all comes down to whether or not a supermajority of America opposes guns. Until that happens, the 2nd Amendment will remain unchanged.
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05-26-2018
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Banned
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: York Town
Posts: 360
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an attempted school shooting today happened in Indiana. https://www.cnbc.com/2018/05/25/acti...le-school.html Results: 2 Wounded (So far) I believe no one died I might be wrong I think more info will come out soon. |