Posted by Talon

Excadrill is one of the better offensive spinners. Scizor is good too, but I find that he gives up too much for Defog. He really needs Swords Dance to be close to a relevant offensive threat + BPunch and Knock Off. Defog works in the last slot, but Roost is immensely helpful since he can't run Leftovers.

Mandibuzz is one of the best Defoggers around since it's ridiculously tanky and can hit offensive mons hard with Foul Play. The Lati@s twins have fast Defogs and are solid offensive threats on their own, and also ignore Spikes. Forretress can lay hazards and spin away, and is one of the best hazard controllers in the game. Starmie's got a fast Rapid Spin and is decent offensively too.

Talonflame can Defog, but... yeah

Overall, I'd recommend Air Balloon/Lefties Excadrill for a bulky offensive spinner, defensive M.Scizor or Mandibuzz for defensive Defoggers, and the three Psychics I mentioned for fast offensive spinners. Excadrill is the only to get a resist to SR, though.

I got that Dragonite setup you suggested. Took awhile to get a Dratini with all the requirements, but I finally did it. EV trained it and got it to Lv. 55. I'm in love with him <3. Out of the defoggers you mentioned I would probably choose between Mandibuzz and Excadrill. Would Excadrill die quickly though if I used it since he has low defenses or would he be okay?  

You can run a bulky set on Excadrill, his resistances make up for his relatively weak defenses. I still prefer a Scarf set with Spin though, it's more reliable.  

Posted by Talon

You can run a bulky set on Excadrill, his resistances make up for his relatively weak defenses. I still prefer a Scarf set with Spin though, it's more reliable.

I might as well aim for both then and try each one out. I got a Careful Mandibuzz with 5IVs (-SP. ATK) and the ability Big Pecks with the egg moves Knock Off and Foul Play. Now before I start EV training this thing, are these good prerequisites? If they are, what should the spread be?  

I guess you could go for specially defensive offensive 252hp/252spdef/4def with foul play/knock off/roost/taunt but try to get a bold nature since mandibuzz was made to wreck physical attackers (bold) 252hp/252def/4spdef(?) Same moveset  

Posted by Sariss

I guess you could go for specially defensive offensive 252hp/252spdef/4def with foul play/knock off/roost/taunt but try to get a bold nature since mandibuzz was made to wreck physical attackers (bold) 252hp/252def/4spdef(?) Same moveset

I'm just curious why Bold nature is favored if it lowers attack. Shouldn't I aim for something that raises defense and lowers special attack?

P.S. Talon thank you for this lovely Dragonite combination. It has been wiping out so many Pokemon for me. One guy rage quit though because I killed 3 of his pokemon with Staraptor in one hit and killed the rest in one hit with Dragonite. I really hate when people do that. I don't think I've disconnected even once.  

I prefer Mandibuzz running 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef on Impish nature, with the moves Foul Play, Roost, Knock Off, and either Defog or Taunt based on what your team needs. I personally prefer this over a Specially defensive because its typing isn't built to take Special attacks; a considerable amount being BoltBeam (Ice/Elec), and no amount of investment can prevent KOs from them.

248 HP instead of 252 HP for an odd amount of HP, so you take 24% from Stealth Rock instead of 25%, since it rounds down.  

Posted by Talon

I prefer Mandibuzz running 248 HP / 252 Def / 8 SDef on Impish nature, with the moves Foul Play, Roost, Knock Off, and either Defog or Taunt based on what your team needs. I personally prefer this over a Specially defensive because its typing isn't built to take Special attacks; a considerable amount being BoltBeam (Ice/Elec), and no amount of investment can prevent KOs from them.

248 HP instead of 252 HP for an odd amount of HP, so you take 24% from Stealth Rock instead of 25%, since it rounds down.

Alright, I'll start breeding a Impish one then. To me, this makes more sense then what Smogon suggests. If it's low in SP. ATK, then why sacrifice its attack stat with bold nature instead of SP. ATK with Impish? Thanks for all the information. Extremely useful.  

Not bashing anyone as I still play diamond still on my DS and I try to make the strongest pokemon as well... but....

....

...does anyone think maybe we took pokemon a little too bit far...?  

Posted by Kendama

Not bashing anyone as I still play diamond still on my DS and I try to make the strongest pokemon as well... but....

....

...does anyone think maybe we took pokemon a little too bit far...?

Maybe. I've never been so addicted to it in my life. Ever since I started trading and learning more about competitive battling I became much more intrigued with it. I can't let it take over my summer though. Not after Animal Crossing... I have to pry myself away from it for a break because I have been super glued to this thing.

EDIT: By the way, Dragonite isn't banned from anything right? Because this is insane how good he is. I defeated an entire team again with just him.  

Posted by Kendama

Not bashing anyone as I still play diamond still on my DS and I try to make the strongest pokemon as well... but....

....

...does anyone think maybe we took pokemon a little too bit far...?

No, there's absolutely no reason to take any other game more seriously than Pokemon, whether you play competitively, cartridge, Nuzlocke, or however you want to play. It's a game just like any other, and the intricacies and fine-tuned balance of competitive Pokemon actually make it a very interesting and challenging (not naming a genre because genre-Nazis and their "MUH RPG" thing) game.  

Posted by Tyler

Alright, I'll start breeding a Impish one then. To me, this makes more sense then what Smogon suggests. If it's low in SP. ATK, then why sacrifice its attack stat with bold nature instead of SP. ATK with Impish? Thanks for all the information. Extremely useful.

Sorry meant Impish.

Posted by Kendama

Not bashing anyone as I still play diamond still on my DS and I try to make the strongest pokemon as well... but....

....

...does anyone think maybe we took pokemon a little too bit far...?

I hardly play anymore, and really what we're talking about is basic. There are natures which add one stat or lower another, and EVs (like 252hp/252atk) are (basically) the thing that determines what that pokemon will be good at.  

Posted by Tyler

Maybe. I've never been so addicted to it in my life. Ever since I started trading and learning more about competitive battling I became much more intrigued with it. I can't let it take over my summer though. Not after Animal Crossing... I have to pry myself away from it for a break because I have been super glued to this thing.

EDIT: By the way, Dragonite isn't banned from anything right? Because this is insane how good he is. I defeated an entire team again with just him.

Oh, Smogon recommended Bold on that page since neither of the offensive stats mattered since Mandibuzz didn't typically run Knock Off since it sucked in BW. On the website, they only have the BW analyses which are somewhat outdated. They probably did Bold to minimize the attack as much as possible. When a mon doesn't use any physical moves, I always run 0 IVs and a reducing nature like Timid or Bold since attack stat still factors in to confusion damage and Foul Play. So when Special attackers that have a high Attack stat (like Special Tyranitar or Hydreigon) get confused or hit by FP, it minimizes damage from it.

And no, Dragonite isn't banned. It's one of the most common mons in OU, though. I'm not sure what cartridge meta is like, but heavy importance on hazards and U-turn/Volt Switch are a thing on Showdown and it really hinders Dragonite's effectiveness.  

Posted by Talon

Oh, Smogon recommended Bold on that page since neither of the offensive stats mattered since Mandibuzz didn't typically run Knock Off since it sucked in BW. On the website, they only have the BW analyses which are somewhat outdated. They probably did Bold to minimize the attack as much as possible. When a mon doesn't use any physical moves, I always run 0 IVs and a reducing nature like Timid or Bold since attack stat still factors in to confusion damage and Foul Play. So when Special attackers that have a high Attack stat (like Special Tyranitar or Hydreigon) get confused or hit by FP, it minimizes damage from it.

And no, Dragonite isn't banned. It's one of the most common mons in OU, though. I'm not sure what cartridge meta is like, but heavy importance on hazards and U-turn/Volt Switch are a thing on Showdown and it really hinders Dragonite's effectiveness.

I've seen some defog sets on mandi as well if you want it just to absorb hits and be a utility pokemon.
Also dragonite is great because of multiscale. Just to throw an idea out there... Maybe try using weakness policy in combination with multiscale and just dragon dance on that turn if you know you'll live.  

Look at all dis hardcore Pokemon.

I literally know the bare necessities: Fire<Water<Grass>Rock etc.

What can I say I'm a simple man.  

Posted by Talon

Oh, Smogon recommended Bold on that page since neither of the offensive stats mattered since Mandibuzz didn't typically run Knock Off since it sucked in BW. On the website, they only have the BW analyses which are somewhat outdated. They probably did Bold to minimize the attack as much as possible. When a mon doesn't use any physical moves, I always run 0 IVs and a reducing nature like Timid or Bold since attack stat still factors in to confusion damage and Foul Play. So when Special attackers that have a high Attack stat (like Special Tyranitar or Hydreigon) get confused or hit by FP, it minimizes damage from it.

And no, Dragonite isn't banned. It's one of the most common mons in OU, though. I'm not sure what cartridge meta is like, but heavy importance on hazards and U-turn/Volt Switch are a thing on Showdown and it really hinders Dragonite's effectiveness.

I faced a Mandibuzz today and he wiped my Dragonite out in one hit with Foul Play. Most likely because I used Dragon Dance earlier. Pretty nifty. I managed to defeat the Pokemon that I face on a regular basis that I hate (Landorus and Conkuldurr) and defeated his Azumarill, but he disconnected right before I defeated it. It is very discouraging when that happens. That's good that Dragonite isn't banned though. Now I see why he isn't from recent battles.

EDIT: Oh man that was cool. I battled someone on my friends list who had a Durant and swapped the Truant ability with my Dragonite's Multiscale so it loafed around every other turn. I've never seen that before. I ended up beating it anyways, but it rendered my Dragonite nearly useless.

EDIT#2: So I was thinking with my Porygon2 having Analytic and all, should I aim for one with -ATK AND -SPEED? Right now it has 5IVs -ATK and since Analytic is only good when he moves second, maybe that would be more useful. Also, what would be a good nature/ev spread for Gardevoir as a special sweeper?