For a war guild to have permanent members, no kick and recruit, and to be sucessful would be near impossible. 25 people. C'mon guys. That's why the Ally system has been used for sub guilds in most war guilds. For SoS, ~100 members that work together and know each other.

I for one never change guilds whatsoever. My GST teams have all been made up of close friends to the guild members and the members themselves. While some members may never switch, I don't think there is any single guild where all the members are strictly on tag 24/7.

@OP, Charm's allies are basically friend guilds, I don't think they've used the ally system in the way you seem correct either based on that logic.

@Rufus, you win internets.  

I'm afraid that hats have made people unloyal if you take a look mostly every guild that has nearly 1k or is going for 1k just have people to help for the hats they win but not for the honor for the guild which is sad.  

Guilds are made for any leader's sole purpose. As rufus said some guild are just mainly for gst and will probably never kick those members and only have like 7 people in the guild (5 core 2 sub). Then there is a "Guild for friends" where you just fill up a guild with all your friends which might not even require the tags to be on 24/7. Then there are those family guilds that may require you to be on tag 24/7 or something close to that. And the last thing is a tower taking guild, which has been said previously kick and recruit members, which consist of multiple allies to help keep the tower.

Each guild has a different view of what a guild should be. Like some guilds can be a family guild and at the same time be a tower taking guild (Zanza) others could be a Guild spar guild and a friends guild (US?) and sometimes all of the above.

I can say on the behalf on the tower guilds that they need to have a system to regulate how to take towers. Before the allies system came out this has also been used but more like if there is an allied guild that the person would have to pm you and recruit. That does not make it say your not loyal to the guild just means that they want to be able to keep a tower with active people at a certain time.

On the behalf of family guilds, you can probably see the difference in loyalty from a tower guild, but you will still have some people that do go off tag to probably go to a tower or do something else. I myself can say that stay on Feare tag 24/7 is not very much fun seeing how it's just like 2 or 3 people on tag once a day.

Posted by Gambit Drakul

I'm afraid that hats have made people unloyal if you take a look mostly every guild that has nearly 1k or is going for 1k just have people to help for the hats they win but not for the honor for the guild which is sad.

I can agree that there are many many people who are "hat chasers", I myself could be one, who are very loyal just to get the hat. Then other times they might not be as loyal and just waste a tag  

Posted by Gambit Drakul

I'm afraid that hats have made people unloyal if you take a look mostly every guild that has nearly 1k or is going for 1k just have people to help for the hats they win but not for the honor for the guild which is sad.

For all the guilds that have passed 1k and continued, I honestly don't think the rewards of 5k and 10k are what drives the guild to take towers. It's thrown around occasionally but for the more senior, or smarter, or more respected, or older, or wiser members, the hats mean nothing to them.

Posted by Fireenn

I can say on the behalf on the tower guilds that they need to have a system to regulate how to take towers. Before the allies system came out this has also been used but more like if there is an allied guild that the person would have to pm you and recruit. That does not make it say your not loyal to the guild just means that they want to be able to keep a tower with active people at a certain time.

What?

Posted by fireenn

On the behalf of family guilds, you can probably see the difference in loyalty from a tower guild, but you will still have some people that do go off tag to probably go to a tower or do something else. I myself can say that stay on Feare tag 24/7 is not very much fun seeing how it's just like 2 or 3 people on tag once a day.

I'm going to disagree with you there, every tower guild has a strong backbone of members just as, if not more loyal than family guilds. There is a hierarchy, and being loyal is the way to move up in it. I'm really not sure how to put this across because I don't think a lot of people on this website tower.  

Posted by Pazx

For a war guild to have permanent members, no kick and recruit, and to be sucessful would be near impossible. 25 people. C'mon guys. That's why the Ally system has been used for sub guilds in most war guilds. For SoS, ~100 members that work together and know each other.

Complete bull****. It is possible for a "war guild" to recive 1k hours without abusing the alliance system and saying that the ally system was made for sub guilds. Just take a look at Project Soul. If i recall they didnt have any "sub guilds" to trash their players into if they went offline. In fact if i remembered corectly, the guilds that they were allied to ACTUALLY came to help them from time to time. I mean why else do the reward the guild and the ALLIANCE for having 1k hours.  

Posted by NiTe

Complete bull****. It is possible for a "war guild" to recive 1k hours without abusing the alliance system and saying that the ally system was made for sub guilds. Just take a look at Project Soul. If i recall they didnt have any "sub guilds" to trash their players into if they went offline. In fact if i remembered corectly, the guilds that they were allied to ACTUALLY came to help them from time to time. I mean why else do the reward the guild and the ALLIANCE for having 1k hours.

nufsed  

Allys killed tower taking. It's unfair how these mega guilds came along with sub guilds to bypass the 25 member limit. The idea was to have 25 good loyal members, not a bunch of newb recruits to swamp the tower. Then again, can't really blame em when big guilds and staff guilds end up being such a bad example. If the guild system was fixed to make it so it had to be used the way it was intended to then things would be way more fair, most games don't let staff members compete in player events, it's for a reason. Yet staff don't seem to give a **** anyway.  

Posted by Higbey

Allys killed tower taking. It's unfair how these mega guilds came along with sub guilds to bypass the 25 member limit. The idea was to have 25 good loyal members, not a bunch of newb recruits to swamp the tower.

I was just going to say, towers are just a "who can stash the most noobs in a room" competition now.  

Posted by qes

No offense, iclassics guilds suck so bad.
we go on and off tags 24/7 joining guilds like its nothing making guilds like its nothing kicking people from guilds like its nothing.
if we all stuck to 1 guild each and put our full loyalty into it, iclassic would be sick.
Ventrue Charm Zanza and US are the only ones putting that thought into consideration,and 2 out of 4 are from PC
"oh i like my freedom of guilds"
yea well maybe you should be using your freedom more wise.
"on pc when a person left his guild and went to a new one it was considered a huge thing" -angelus (Ventrue)

maybe we should think of how cool it would be if we dident all kick and recruit an we started joining less guilds and start making more 100% loyal/no kicking guilds.
maybe we should use allys as guild ALLIANCESES not Sub guilds.
we abused the guild system and allie system and now we will never fix it...... or can we?

Most people do stick to one guild, and even if they don't, how is that affecting the "sickness" of this game? You're basically saying guilds should be military strict. I agree that loyalty is important but your failing to realise that some guilds are just meant for friends, chatting, fooling around, etc. I also think claiming that sub guilds are "abusing the system" is not that strong of a point. I think you should just let it be, the current guild system isn't that bad.  

Posted by Yephenpeace

Most people do stick to one guild, and even if they don't, how is that affecting the "sickness" of this game? You're basically saying guilds should be military strict. I agree that loyalty is important but your failing to realise that some guilds are just meant for friends, chatting, fooling around, etc. I also think claiming that sub guilds are "abusing the system" is not that strong of a point. I think you should just let it be, the current guild system isn't that bad.

Yeah,Most not all players stick to one guild what he means is that some people try their hardest to join a guild then by the next week leave to join another guild for what exactly?Hats,Rep,or other privileges point is they get passed around like a bag of chips.

And we're not saying that fun guilds are bad we understand that people do it to socialize that's cool just dislike how some people are guild *****s is all.  

In my time playing Graal, I have only had true loyalty for two. It took almost a year for me to find either. I regard guilds as somewhere you should be able to trust EVERYONE. Where, if everyone you know irl is against you, you can go and relax. This went twofold for me, because I have a lot of issues(medical and otherwise), And Ventrue put up with me for over a year. Through so much, Ventrue and Ch4rM were wher my loyalties lied. I know people who had relationship problems and would come and rant on Graal for the release. I absolutely hate seeing people bounce between so many guilds. To me, loyalty is everything. Being kicked is an act of absolute last resort. It's horrible. I don't know what else to say, but I agree, Qes.  

Just by looking at the guild fort scores, you notice a trend: CoM, VG, CJ, CXE, NAL, Cruxis, SOS, ZC, Pulse, BoN, AV, and many, many more, ALL use the sub guilds as allies system. If some of you believe that this is abusing the allies, then that would be more of a reflection on the tower system itself, not the guilds. For those who say it's totally possible to be successful with one 25 member guild, check the top 50 and see how many of those actually exist.

As for loyalty, most tower guilds prioritize loyalty from their members. Of course some guilds noobcruit and win that way, but most of them do have a solid set of perms. I think most PC players are used to smaller, more tightly knit guilds simply because the PC community is smaller & generally has less kids. For example, on a server that averages 100 players, having a loyal guild of 5-10 is pretty impressive. On a server with 1500+, you really do need some way to give your guild a chance to win (Subs as allies). I see no problem with both guild types (Small, no sub allies, and large, subs as allies) coexisting, no need to fight over it.  

100% agree with Vyse.  

meh why do yall care so much >.< get over yalls self and deal with it

'waits for people to throw rocks'  

We care because I'd rather have friends in a guild who I know instead of random people I barely see because they go off tag so much.