Posted by deadowl

AP was originally designed as a scale for implementing measures against people that would just run off and heal. That's lame, it's classed as laming. In it's essence, it's a scale implemented to eliminate laming among more active PKers.

Sainthood was implemented, which provided unskilled newbies and players who would prefer not to participate in PKing an opt out. Players would just wait to gain sainthood, attack another player to near death, and then let someone else take the kill. That's lame. It's classed as laming. I was the person who made the decision and implemented on PC Classic that anyone with sainthood loses sainthood on a single attack. It was carried over into iClassic.

What you see now is player's denying another player a kill via suicide, which is pretty lame. Hence why it should be classed as laming.

I would class suicides of non-saints as counting against AP. If a player's AP is below the healing limit, a suicide should count as a kill to the last player to attack that person since their most recent death. An important conditions is applying this rule only since their most recent death, otherwise, someone could boost kills off of a suicidal account holder or alt account. Boosting is lame, Graal's glameplay doesn't need that.

^^^^^^^  

Posted by Strum

^^^^^^^

Just edited that post a bunch, also to include suicide as a saint as counting against AP simply because it doesn't make sense to call someone a saint and allow them to maintain sainthood if they kill themselves. It's still the same idea in spirit.  

Why take away a perfectly legitamate style of pking and defense? Killing yourself has its place, and I think that it's actually a more skillful part of pking.

My advice to beating it

Get good at chasing people so they can't bomb themselves. Even at sards you can protect the door and swing when they try and leave. Even the lantern+bomb can be easily beaten by a good chaser, as they lose their blink when they place the bomb. This isn't a issue with the game, if anything it makes pking more interesting and exciting.

if someone is on my bad side I will SD so they will never kill me. Sometimes ill do it just for practice. Hell, some days I'll just feel like it and do it. Do I feel bad for "robbing" you of a kill? Not at all, because if you weren't good enough to stop my suicide then you didn't deserve to kill me.  

All I want is for kills to not count or decrease when players team kill their guild members on .5 with an arrow or a bomb.  

Posted by Areo

Why take away a perfectly legitamate style of pking and defense? Killing yourself has its place, and I think that it's actually a more skillful part of pking.

"Healing yourself is a perfectly legitamate style of PKing."

"Killing n00bz is a perfectly legitamate style of PKing."

"Attacking people with saint is a perfectly legitamate style of PKing."

Meanwhile, why take away a "legitamate" style of defense? How in the world is killing yourself a defense? There's no honor in it. It has a negative effect on gameplay, plain and simple.  

Staff on Classic, to my knowledge, never went through scripted efforts to stop laming... I can't recall them really punishing anyone who chose to do it either. If they did, Silvercrank went unpunished for years. The trident NPC existed almost exclusively for laming. I don't agree with limiting players to playing a certain way just because the community perceives their strategy as lame.  

Posted by Bryan*

All I want is for kills to not count or decrease when players team kill their guild members on .5 with an arrow or a bomb.

I also believe team kills shouldn't count toward stats, unless anyone wants a specific stat for team kills so you know who to expel from your guild.  

Yeah it's annoying, but I honestly don't think anything should be done about it.

Whenever someone suicides they are only making themselves worse off. Wasting their time focusing on dying rather than getting a few more kills with their half heart. If you think you deserve the kill just because you got the last hit before they suicided, you should also argue that whoever did the most damage to the person deserves the kill, not just whoever got the last hit. It would be more fair, but overly complicated and unnecessary. People deny and/or steal your kills, but you most likely deny and/or steal theirs too.

Posted by Bryan*

All I want is for kills to not count or decrease when players team kill their guild members on .5 with an arrow or a bomb.

Team kills don't count as kills and it's been like that for a longgg time. Towering guilds only kill their members to heal them or deny the kills from pkers hoping that they will become discouraged and pk different towers  

Posted by Noxious

Yeah it's annoying, but I honestly don't think anything should be done about it.

Review of Graal Online PKing: Annoying
Review of Graal Online PKing: Competitive

What would most prospective players prefer?  

Posted by deadowl

Review of Graal Online PKing: Annoying
Review of Graal Online PKing: Competitive

What would most prospective players prefer?

Just gecause they cant take the time to either chase or ignore the kill? Because they get salty and want the person thats annoying them to onky have the choice of death by their hands?

They can get the kill its just that they dont like that its harder cuz players can kill themselves which is a good challenge imo.  

Posted by deadowl

Review of Graal Online PKing: Annoying
Review of Graal Online PKing: Competitive

What would most prospective players prefer?

I hope you didn't stop reading there.

I never said pking is annoying. My statement was specifically about suiciding, which denies a kill from a player. Which of course, is annoying. However, there is more than 1 way to deny a kill, not just suiciding, so that "annoying" factor of missing out on a kill will always be present.  

Posted by Deadowl

Meanwhile, why take away a "legitamate" style of defense? How in the world is killing yourself a defense? There's no honor in it. It has a negative effect on gameplay, plain and simple.

It's a defense because it makes pking your tower less desirable, isn't that obvious? There obviously isn't honor in it. If you were going for honor you would fight to the death. But why limit people to just the honor choice? Why not let people choose how they want to be seen, instead of forcing them to confine to the way you think they should be.

And the Impact of gameplay is debatable. I can argue that it forces people to improve, instead of giving them a kill they didn't finish off.  

Seen this a few times in swamp near destiny. Those fires are pretty handy for suicide noobs. Where's Jeffery when you need him?

Kidding aside, the major drawback I see in current implementation of suicide is the fact that they don't drop bombs or arrows. It's just an annoyance to have some random roll up on ya while writing a message and kill you for your ammo, then run off and kill themselves without any penalty. Damn punk thieves...  

Posted by 4-Lom

Seen this a few times in swamp near destiny. Those fires are pretty handy for suicide noobs. Where's Jeffery when you need him?

Kidding aside, the major drawback I see in current implementation of suicide is the fact that they don't drop bombs or arrows. It's just an annoyance to have some random roll up on ya while writing a message and kill you for your ammo, then run off and kill themselves without any penalty. Damn punk thieves...

Agreed, make it so they drop bombs and arrows when they suicide aswell.  

Posted by Noxious

Team kills don't count as kills and it's been like that for a longgg time. Towering guilds only kill their members to heal them or deny the kills from pkers hoping that they will become discouraged and pk different towers

Killing guild members on .5 of health do count as kills since their stat increases. Team kills should be negated or don't give you the kill at all.