Posted by James205

I don't get how if someone argues against that they are saying any of that at all? Sure winning GST rounds is hard but it's also completely irrelevant to the current seasonal GST. Previous seasons are over and the grind continues in a new season, I honestly could care less about previous seasons.

I'm not asking you to care, I'm telling you what's sensible in respect to what actually happens every single GST... You've been here for 1 GST so I'm not sure if you're really in a position to speak about previous ones.
And no, previous GSTs aren't irrelevant... Maybe to you they are, but not statistically. Since the very first GST, 2 guilds make up over 90% of the Mixed wins. The same guilds compete for iDevice every single season, too. US rarely cared about being seeded #1 and we really don't either. I actually think that my guild has somehow managed to face less stiff competition by being seeded lower...

Like I've said, the reality is that (regardless of if it's the current system or a rating system) the GS leaderboard will primarily be decided by:

• People sparring "carefully" on their tag
• People making temporary recruits to their tag

That completely defeats the purpose of seeding... There's no arguing against that, every guild does it because they don't want to have to grind out 100 spars against garbage guilds, it isn't fun. Why do people guild spar at Belle? Because they want quality spars against good players without the risk of a points loss. What guilds are those players in? The ones I previously mentioned, which are guaranteed to qualify every single GST...

You're acting as if it's being suggested that only previous GST winners can enter GSTs. It's seeding. Seeding is so irrelevant right now because of how skewed and inaccurate it is (again, because of these pre-existing systems). I don't care if my guild is seeded #1 or seeded #32, it wouldn't matter. The point is that the quality of sparring that happens in the GS rooms at the arena are a joke, the seeding is skewed and pointless, and it does nothing but promote unhealthy guild activity.

Exactly what will happen: 1 week before the GST, 50 people will be in each GS room. Every top guild will refuse to spar unless they have 5 online. 90% of them will make temporary recruits to have 5 on. They will be careful about who and when they spar. They'll reach a number that they're happy with and then spend the rest of their time on alternate tags. Some will be pathetic enough to even try to sabotage the scores of others by hoarding random people on alternate tags and trying to sync their queue time with real guilds.

Literally nothing is healthy or fun about that line of gameplay. It's a boring chore. I'd rather be seeded #32 through an auto-qualification than be seeded #1 through spending hours sparring noob guilds or guilds that are temporarily recruiting members at the arena. Those hours of timesink GSing could instead be invested in quality GSing.  

Posted by Thallen

I'm not asking you to care, I'm telling you what's sensible... You've been here for 1 GST so I'm not sure if you're really in a position to speak about previous ones.

Dude it's a tournament just like any other game. It's not a complicated nor complex topic whatsoever. I've played this game for far too long and it doesn't take much to understand the simplistic concepts of this game. If you know how to count to 10 then you basically meet the minimum requirements to understand everything on Graal.

Posted by Thallen

Like I've said, the reality is that (regardless of if it's the current system or a rating system) the leaderboard will primarily be decided by:

-People sparring "carefully" on their tag
-People making temporary recruits to their tag

I understand what is wrong with the leaderboard, I just disagree with the auto seeding suggestion you made. I also disagree with your weird logic of "effectively saying rant"... was very weird.

Posted by Thallen

That completely defeats the purpose of seeding... There's no arguing against that, every guild does it because they don't want to have to grind out 100 spars against garbage guilds, it isn't fun. Why do people from your guild spar at Belle? Because they want quality spars against good guilds? What guilds are they? The ones I previously mentioned, which are guaranteed to qualify every single GST...

And they ultimately do qualify in the end, it doesn't even take much work to get seeded (using the old board). My guild literally did it in just a weekend basically last season.

You'll absolutely hate my suggestion- I think it should be harder to qualify. I won't go into the details though because you'd probably have an aneurysm.

Posted by Thallen

You're acting as if it's being suggested that only previous GST winners can enter GSTs, it's seeding. Seeding is literally irrelevant because of how skewed and inaccurate it is (again, because of these pre-existing systems). I don't care if my guild is seeded #1 or seeded #32, it wouldn't matter. The point is that the quality of sparring that happens in the GS rooms at the arena are a joke and it does nothing but promote unhealthy guild activity.

First - seeding is not irrelevant. It's irrelevant to you but to some other people they actually do care (PS- I don't care but I know others that do). What needs to be fixed is the leaderboard.

What I'm saying is your concept of using GSTs wins as some excuse to potentially get auto seeded in any kind of way is just an absolutely terrible idea. You have a lot of good ideas but I do not like that idea at all and I explained why in my other post in a lot of detail. I'm not just saying it to disagree with you, I just don't like the idea and hope it's never considered... ever.

The current leaderboard system should be improved, agreed. Current leaderboard can be annoying... sure. I understand you're frustrated with having to work during the season to get placement but believe it or not there is a large # of players outside of the current sparring hivemind and not just people who post on this forum/guilds you care about -- and really guild sparring should appeal to everyone even if they suck.

Posted by Thallen

Literally nothing is healthy or fun about that line of gameplay. It's a boring chore. I'd rather be seeded #32 through an auto-qualification than be seeded #1 through spending hours sparring noob guilds or guilds that are temporarily recruiting members at the arena. Those hours of timesink GSing could instead be invested in quality GSing.

Again, I absolutely do not like this idea in any shape or form.  

Posted by James205

I won't go into the details

I know you won't. It's a lot easier to criticize other people's ideas than come up with your own sensible and realistic solution to a problem that has existed for longer than you've played this server. You're just spamming "the current leaderboard sucks and this other idea sucks." That's near GOAT-tier level of contribution to this thread.  

Posted by Thallen

I know you won't. It's a lot easier to criticize other people's ideas than come up with your own sensible and realistic solution to a problem that has existed for longer than you've played this server. You're just spamming "the current leaderboard sucks and this other idea sucks." That's near GOAT-tier level of contribution to this thread.

I also want to reiterate the fact you have a lot of good ideas, a lot I agree with. Just the auto-seeded one I have a strong disagreement on. I just wanted to make sure I was vocal to maybe prevent it from ever happening or being considered.

Everything in red in quotes what the hell are you even talking about?  

Posted by James205

Everything in red in quotes what the hell are you even talking about?

Uh:

Posted by James205

I understand what is wrong with the leaderboard

Posted by James205

absolutely terrible idea

Posted by James205

I just don't like the idea

Posted by James205

The current leaderboard system should be improved

Are you just going to continue to wildly criticize the current leaderboard and other ideas, or are you actually going to suggest how to fix it?  

Posted by Darkk

You obviously disagree with the auto-seeding idea because silver lion wouldn't qualify...

Not to mention it's really pointless  

Posted by Thallen

Uh:





Are you just going to continue to blankly criticize the current leaderboard and other ideas, or are you actually going to suggest how to fix it?

You cut out pieces of my posts which are actually lengthy in detail and call it spam, again I have absolutely no idea what the hell you are saying besides the fact you don't like the fact I don't like your idea. I put detail into my post on why it's a bad idea and didn't just post "IT WOULD RUIN EVERYTHING" like everyone does here.

No I don't have a suggestion to fix it, I just don't like your recommendation about auto-seeding - that's it and I wanted to be vocal about it. Once they fix guild loyalty issue then I think the leaderboards would get better fairly quickly.

How they go about fixing that issue is on them.  

Can't we just avoid this auto-seeding as a whole since guilds like SL will find it difficult to join by either adding the old gs points system back or even make a gs streak room? It would make gsing much more faster and easier to get the enormous amount of points you admins want us to get to qualify for something that we are obviously able to compete in.  

Posted by alexx

Can't we just avoid this auto-seeding as a whole since guilds like SL will find it difficult to join by either adding the old gs points system back or even make a gs streak room? It would make gsing much more faster and easier to get the enormous amount of points you admins want us to get to qualify for something that we are obviously able to compete in.

^^^^^^
Agree with my buddy Alex Koga when he says its ridiculous, Its crazy that we need to spar people who aren't even able to kill off 1 player in a 3v5 and beat people like that 100's of times over which is boring.

Old gs system or seeding from previous gst results as thallen suggested.  

fp4 already said in an earlier post he's either gonna revert it to that old points system or use rating ("showguildrating", might be broken right now)
They're basically the same exact thing, doesn't matter which he ends up using

Apostles, Blackout, VIS, CRZ, Rebellious, etc., organize yourselves and prepare for hours of queueing into 5 vs. 3s against kids that are fresh out of Balamb  

Posted by OG

^^^^^^
Agree with my buddy Alex Koga when he says its ridiculous, Its crazy that we need to spar people who aren't even able to kill off 1 player in a 3v5 and beat people like that 100's of times over which is boring.

Old gs system or seeding from previous gst results as thallen suggested.

Streak room for GS would be really nice

Making it only 1 GST and fix guild loyalty for leaderboards and it makes things more competitive imo  

Posted by Thallen

fp4 already said in an earlier post he's either gonna revert it to that old "points" system or use rating ("showguildrating", might be broken right now)
They're basically the same exact thing, doesn't matter which he ends up using

I guess I should elaborate that the way GST seeds teams is completely unaffected by the new scoreboards. The top 100 guilds by 'guild score' list is still maintained which is what the GST bracket generator still works off.  

Posted by Thallen

fp4 already said in an earlier post he's either gonna revert it to that old points system or use rating ("showguildrating", might be broken right now)
They're basically the same exact thing, doesn't matter which he ends up using

Apostles, Blackout, VIS, CRZ, Rebellious, etc., organize yourselves and prepare for hours of queueing into 5 vs. 3s against kids that are fresh out of Balamb

We had the same system as you set up last season, gs up to 7k then leave it be until gst week. Win the required amount of spars to show score again and get it all back which seeded us 2nd.  

Posted by fp4

I guess I should elaborate that the way GST seeds teams is completely unaffected by the new scoreboards. The top 100 guilds by 'guild score' list is still maintained which is what the GST bracket generator still works off.

Cool. You said earlier that it was kind of awkward since there's only a seasonal display for those points, so it doesn't fit the leaderboard very well. Well, guild points are still shown in guild profiles. For example, go to the guild profile for "Blackout" and you'll see their GS points.

If you want to cheat your way out of fitting that onto it's own leaderboard, you could just replace the "Points: 5532" with "GS Rank: 7th" in guild profiles. You wouldn't even need a leaderboard then, people could evaluate if they'll qualify just based off of that.

This would also solve bracket fixing, since you used to be able to essentially look at the old leaderboard and dodge being in the same bracket as another team (if they're an even seed, you can get an odd seed to avoid them).  

Posted by James205

Streak room for GS would be really nice

Making it only 1 GST and fix guild loyalty for leaderboards and it makes things more competitive imo

Theres no way people who aren't in top guilds like Alumni, crz, vis, Apostles, silver lion, blackout and demon will want 2 split GSTS formed into 1.
Everyone who plays this server has keyboardphobia and its literally a dead fad that keeps on resurrecting itself.

Guild loyalty once again is such an easy fix, just make it so only the people registered in the team can gs on that tag and they may only wear that tag until the GST is over.