Posted by Vyse Feare

Just because you didn't get our 1k hat does not give you the right to be so rude. No point in arguing with you, you've already shown you have no problem with cheap shots. Although it is pretty funny how you only start insulting us AFTER you found out you wouldn't be getting the hat.

no, the hat was just the cherry on top. you don't really know the story so you can't really talk. basically i just came back from quiting for a year and wanted a guild. i messaged you, and saw advent, and asked you what it was and i got recruited. at first i loved it, having a tower a lot, making a few new friends, etc. and it was even after the fact that i was recruited that i knew you were a tower taking guild. then at around 900 hours i started to look around. we had deadwood, and i just saw the AE's (co-leaders) telling people to block the left and right staircase. i questioned them, i tried to correct them, saying that if we spread ourselves out we'll be more successful. this is the response i got: "are you questioning the AE's?" "dude, shut up, were fine" "lol godzilla your asking for it" (from an AE) "god, dont question us, we work hard here, and we've been doing this for a while". now at that point i was just like whatever let them do what they want. but i figured the leaders did'nt really know what they were talking about, and it was pretty stupid to just ignore a tip from a member. so i decided i would try to climb my way to the top of the ranks, and try to get my opinions heard. at this point i had also talked to some of my old friends, and they've talked to me about asking to join zanza, or making a new guild with some friends where i would have a leadership position of sorts. but for the time being i turned them down. why? because i saw a few gems in advent. ilazr, mik, pain, even you were people i respected. in fact i still respect you guys. but looking back it was really only you. i mostly hated everyone else. but anyway on with the story! the second time was when we had snow at around 950. i was skating around, no one was attacking, so i decided to take a walk outside, look around at some shops, see whats new, look for rps people, because keep in mind i just got back from a year. so i was skating around, staying in snowtown if i was needed, and we had plenty of members there. so i was skating around and guild chatted about something in the mad hatter i think. and then, "GODZILLA GET BACK TO SNOW RIGHT NOW OR YOUR KICKED!" at this point i was just laughing at how seriously these AE's took themselves, and made some response like "yes supreme leader", or something. and then the flood of "HEY SHUT UP HES AN AE AND YOUR NOT! KICK HIM!". but i still wanted to stay. not as much, but i still kinda liked it. in between all this i also experienced annoying spam, no free time to myself, and crappy members who could'nt kill pkers whenever we had snow or castle, which was a lot of the time. then at 975, we had snow again. this was the thing that made me begin to disrespect advent. about 3 separate times some noob came in asking to join. every time he was recruited, then kicked when he went offline. so i went up to one of the AE's and told him that we shouldn't noobcruite because we get mad at other guilds for doing it, and we want members who will listen to us, and are friends, not just random people. but then he swiftly responded that it wasn't noobcruiting. that noobcruiting was recruiting random people. what they were doing was recruiting temps. the temps asked to join first. my mistake xD. but i still wanted to climb the ranks in order to try and change the guild to be better. it was after 1k that things snapped. basically walking along i saw rockson, an old GoD member from back in the day. so i messaged him D00M FTW!! this is when we did'nt have a tower btw. so we chatted for a while, shared memories. he recruited me to GoD, and i was being spammed so i accepted it, and put the tag on for a little while. then i recruited him to D00M too. so we chatted for about another hour, then i logged off, logged back in and we had a tower. so i went to put my sub tag on and...kicked. now i get it if someones innactive, but i took the tag off for an hour. thats not that big of a deal. this showed me that the guild leaders were power hungry, and that i could be kicked for doing even the tiniest thing. from there i asked to be recruited again, was, and went and helped at whatever tower had for a little while and went to bed. but there i knew in that climbing the ranks would be very difficult, and that im best off just getting the hat and leaving. this was not where i belonged. i mean i helped you guys a lot, i thought i deserved it. i stayed with you till Saturday, making other estrangements with friends, and then right before the party boom, kicked again for spamming the guild chat even though i wasnt even guild chatting. i swiftly got recruited again by the some nice leader, complained about power abuse, then shut up for the next 15 mins about. then the party came, i was excited to get the hat, and get out. i decided to start the new guild with my friends. so i logged out because there was some sort of complication, and then i logged back in and saw everyone had it. i asked you and you said i was too late. by now i was just like fk this im out of here. and i left. and did criticize you guys when i was in the guild. but it was always met by a power hungry leader threatening to kick me.

see all this stuff?^^^

this shouldnt be what a guild is. i agree with you guys. guilds are being too abusive of the system right now.

for the few days i was out of the guild i didnt touch you guys. but when i saw a person arguing that advent V was a good guild, i couldnt resist. because really, you guys arent. but if you can take comfort in anything its knowing that your still better than some guilds. at least i think...

the reason i use you as an example is because i experienced you. i was in it and i saw all the flaws. im not about to go start talking about a guild being bad i know nothing about.  

Posted by Vyse Feare

As for loyalty, most tower guilds prioritize loyalty from their members. Of course some guilds noobcruit and win that way, but most of them do have a solid set of perms. I think most PC players are used to smaller, more tightly knit guilds simply because the PC community is smaller & generally has less kids. For example, on a server that averages 100 players, having a loyal guild of 5-10 is pretty impressive. On a server with 1500+, you really do need some way to give your guild a chance to win (Subs as allies). I see no problem with both guild types (Small, no sub allies, and large, subs as allies) coexisting, no need to fight over it.

Lol no, it has absolutely nothing to do with the playercount. I'll agree, I prefer quality over quantity in a functional guild, but that doesn't mean to say I'm against having 25 quality members in my guild. Rather than rushing to add every other person who can swing their sword, I'd rather hold out for people that fit my guild and its image. That has nothing to do with my experience on PC servers and it has nothing to do with winning, it's about standards and loyalty. Running a real guild.  

Posted by Godzilla

Text

I'll agree with you, we may have some people like that (Abusive, rude, immature) in AV, but they are kicked at the first sign of it. I have no tolerance for that kind of behavior. However, classifying the whole guild as bad based on a few players makes no sense. If one Target employee was rude to you, would you suddenly think "Oh wow, I guess ALL Target employees are horrible, never shopping there again!" ? I hold my members to very high standards, all you had to do was tell me who was abusive and they would be dealt with.

Posted by Rufus

Lol no, it has absolutely nothing to do with the playercount. I'll agree, I prefer quality over quantity in a functional guild, but that doesn't mean to say I'm against having 25 quality members in my guild. Rather than rushing to add every other person who can swing their sword, I'd rather hold out for people that fit my guild and its image. That has nothing to do with my experience on PC servers and it has nothing to do with winning, it's about standards and loyalty. Running a real guild.

I didn't mean that tower guilds should go out and recruit random people, that's actually the opposite of what I said. A few people in this topic seem to think that tower guilds noobcruit 24/7, don't earn their hats, have no "quality" members, and are basically abusing the ally system. To say we aren't "real guilds" simply because we use subs as allies & have more members is pretty insulting. Like I said before, it's a reflection on the tower system, not the guilds. If you want to a have close knit guild of only 25, that's fine. If you want to take towers with that guild, you can't expect to get very far with it, considering the competition have a huge advantage.

EDIT- Re-reading this, I can easily see where you guys are coming from. I do notice quite a few tower guilds that perfectly fit your descriptions (Noobcruits, rude members, players not earning their hats). I just don't think stereotyping all tower guilds as such is the right way to go about this.  

Posted by Godzilla

no, the hat was just the cherry on top. you don't really know the story so you can't really talk. basically i just came back from quiting for a year and wanted a guild. i messaged you, and saw advent, and asked you what it was and i got recruited. at first i loved it, having a tower a lot, making a few new friends, etc. and it was even after the fact that i was recruited that i knew you were a tower taking guild. then at around 900 hours i started to look around. we had deadwood, and i just saw the AE's (co-leaders) telling people to block the left and right staircase. i questioned them, i tried to correct them, saying that if we spread ourselves out we'll be more successful. this is the response i got: "are you questioning the AE's?" "dude, shut up, were fine" "lol godzilla your asking for it" (from an AE) "god, dont question us, we work hard here, and we've been doing this for a while". now at that point i was just like whatever let them do what they want. but i figured the leaders did'nt really know what they were talking about, and it was pretty stupid to just ignore a tip from a member. so i decided i would try to climb my way to the top of the ranks, and try to get my opinions heard. at this point i had also talked to some of my old friends, and they've talked to me about asking to join zanza, or making a new guild with some friends where i would have a leadership position of sorts. but for the time being i turned them down. why? because i saw a few gems in advent. ilazr, mik, pain, even you were people i respected. in fact i still respect you guys. but looking back it was really only you. i mostly hated everyone else. but anyway on with the story! the second time was when we had snow at around 950. i was skating around, no one was attacking, so i decided to take a walk outside, look around at some shops, see whats new, look for rps people, because keep in mind i just got back from a year. so i was skating around, staying in snowtown if i was needed, and we had plenty of members there. so i was skating around and guild chatted about something in the mad hatter i think. and then, "GODZILLA GET BACK TO SNOW RIGHT NOW OR YOUR KICKED!" at this point i was just laughing at how seriously these AE's took themselves, and made some response like "yes supreme leader", or something. and then the flood of "HEY SHUT UP HES AN AE AND YOUR NOT! KICK HIM!". but i still wanted to stay. not as much, but i still kinda liked it. in between all this i also experienced annoying spam, no free time to myself, and crappy members who could'nt kill pkers whenever we had snow or castle, which was a lot of the time. then at 975, we had snow again. this was the thing that made me begin to disrespect advent. about 3 separate times some noob came in asking to join. every time he was recruited, then kicked when he went offline. so i went up to one of the AE's and told him that we shouldn't noobcruite because we get mad at other guilds for doing it, and we want members who will listen to us, and are friends, not just random people. but then he swiftly responded that it wasn't noobcruiting. that noobcruiting was recruiting random people. what they were doing was recruiting temps. the temps asked to join first. my mistake xD. but i still wanted to climb the ranks in order to try and change the guild to be better. it was after 1k that things snapped. basically walking along i saw rockson, an old GoD member from back in the day. so i messaged him D00M FTW!! this is when we did'nt have a tower btw. so we chatted for a while, shared memories. he recruited me to GoD, and i was being spammed so i accepted it, and put the tag on for a little while. then i recruited him to D00M too. so we chatted for about another hour, then i logged off, logged back in and we had a tower. so i went to put my sub tag on and...kicked. now i get it if someones innactive, but i took the tag off for an hour. thats not that big of a deal. this showed me that the guild leaders were power hungry, and that i could be kicked for doing even the tiniest thing. from there i asked to be recruited again, was, and went and helped at whatever tower had for a little while and went to bed. but there i knew in that climbing the ranks would be very difficult, and that im best off just getting the hat and leaving. this was not where i belonged. i mean i helped you guys a lot, i thought i deserved it. i stayed with you till Saturday, making other estrangements with friends, and then right before the party boom, kicked again for spamming the guild chat even though i wasnt even guild chatting. i swiftly got recruited again by the some nice leader, complained about power abuse, then shut up for the next 15 mins about. then the party came, i was excited to get the hat, and get out. i decided to start the new guild with my friends. so i logged out because there was some sort of complication, and then i logged back in and saw everyone had it. i asked you and you said i was too late. by now i was just like fk this im out of here. and i left. and did criticize you guys when i was in the guild. but it was always met by a power hungry leader threatening to kick me.

see all this stuff?^^^

this shouldnt be what a guild is. i agree with you guys. guilds are being too abusive of the system right now.

for the few days i was out of the guild i didnt touch you guys. but when i saw a person arguing that advent V was a good guild, i couldnt resist. because really, you guys arent. but if you can take comfort in anything its knowing that your still better than some guilds. at least i think...

the reason i use you as an example is because i experienced you. i was in it and i saw all the flaws. im not about to go start talking about a guild being bad i know nothing about.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/154/912/berneydidnotread.gif (Unsupported image host)
srry too long  

Posted by Vyse Feare

I'll agree with you, we may have some people like that (Abusive, rude, immature) in AV, but they are kicked at the first sign of it. I have no tolerance for that kind of behavior. However, classifying the whole guild as bad based on a few players makes no sense. If one Target employee was rude to you, would you suddenly think "Oh wow, I guess ALL Target employees are horrible, never shopping there again!" ? I hold my members to very high standards, all you had to do was tell me who was abusive and they would be dealt with.



I didn't mean that tower guilds should go out and recruit random people, that's actually the opposite of what I said. A few people in this topic seem to think that tower guilds noobcruit 24/7, don't earn their hats, have no "quality" members, and are basically abusing the ally system. To say we aren't "real guilds" simply because we use subs as allies & have more members is pretty insulting. Like I said before, it's a reflection on the tower system, not the guilds. If you want to a have close knit guild of only 25, that's fine. If you want to take towers with that guild, you can't expect to get very far with it, considering the competition have a huge advantage.

EDIT- Re-reading this, I can easily see where you guys are coming from. I do notice quite a few tower guilds that perfectly fit your descriptions (Noobcruits, rude members, players not earning their hats). I just don't think stereotyping all tower guilds as such is the right way to go about this.

nope. a lot of these people are AE's. idk maybe theyre all goodie goodie when youre on, but all 3 people who kicked me should be kicked. thats just straight up abuse. and i said that you had a few good people. i named you mik, ilazr, and pain, and there are a few others i cant remember. but other than that you guys arent too good. its either kids who take themselves too seriously, or spammy noobs who cant swing a sword. sometimes both O.o. looking around obviously your standards arent too high.

and your guild does recruit random people. Advent is one of the stereotypical tower guilds. rude members: check. noobcruits: well you can call it temps all you want but its really all the same. players not earning their hats: idk, you kept out the random people just trying to get hat well, but the tactics you used werent good at all to do so.

stay tuned for my tower guide . you might learn something.

@nite i lold  

Posted by Godzilla

and your guild does recruit random people. Advent is one of the stereotypical tower guilds. rude members: check. noobcruits: well you can call it temps all you want but its really all the same. players not earning their hats: idk, you kept out the random people just trying to get hat well, but the tactics you used werent good at all to do so.

Those who know me personally know my guild isn't like that, at all. As for your many insults, again, I'm not going to argue with ya. You did the same thing to astro when you were kicked then, and you're doing the same thing to us now. Still just as annoying and rude.  

Posted by Rufus

I believe that loyalty is a huge problem on Classic and it's something that comes up in US guild chat quite often. People like myself, Unleash, NiTe, Prado, Shannon, Comyt, Yellow, etc all are associated with US, and that is because we are only US members and have been for quite a while now. It isn't the sparring, the ranks, or the GST wins that make us known (even when we've lost people still believe we've won) it's the loyalty of our members. We all have a few "joke" tags, but you'll very rarely see any of us without a US tag. No one member is bigger than any guild, but if a guild has no unique members to it, then there is no guild to even be recognized.

There are certain people that you'll see in every guild's roster. I feel that in having these people in your guild, you are completely devaluing how "serious" your guild can be taken. This is also the case for people who create guilds for the sole purpose of entering the GST. Do you think that creating mega teams (but not.. y'know.. real guilds) is what the tournament is for? Do you think that there are any benefits to it? NOPE LOL THERE ISN'T. I did this in the last tournament so I could play, but it was my real guild that won in the end. Ch4m also had a second place streak for a long time, and I really believe that this loyalty factor contributed towards that.

People who mess around and change their guild tags every week are a joke, yet nobody seems to realize it in their own actions. When someone is new, or decides to act like this within my guild I'd give them a chance. I still find it very disrespectful to anyone who is loyal to the guild however, and they'd eventually be removed if things didn't change. You don't need people like this. I think that this attitude is something that everyone else should adopt for the sake of maintaining a good guild. You want to be competitive? That's cool, but it isn't going to happen with a bunch of randoms.

p.s. Guild hats need to stop until they're actually being earned.

^ what i was trying to say.
if we had the 1k people online make loyaltly guilds and fill then up we'd have like.... 40-60 guilds in constant competion and classic would be epic.
but not instead we abuse allies as subs or mass noob recruit  

Posted by Vyse Feare

Those who know me personally know my guild isn't like that, at all. As for your many insults, again, I'm not going to argue with ya. You did the same thing to astro when you were kicked then, and you're doing the same thing to us now. Still just as annoying and rude.

lol dude i was in your guild in case you didnt notice. i saw it all personally. it happens whether you like it or not. and while they're insults they're true. you guys do all those things. you like to **** on other guilds for doing them and you do them too. thats pretty hypocritical. and i quit both advent and astro. wasnt kicked. and i didnt make fun astro, i made fun of healy. one person in the guild. thats it. i liked everyone in astro except healy.  

everybody is the oppisite of co opperative... no reason to curse or yell or argue.
whole point of this was just a tad smack in the face to graal to let us know we have being abusing guilds since day 1 of guilds
its like joining the united states army and than helping the Alkida and going back and forth.
and its like recruiting random people to guilds and kicking then.
we have no sense of compition because we all switch guilds.  

Posted by qes

everybody is the oppisite of co opperative... no reason to curse or yell or argue.
whole point of this was just a tad smack in the face to graal to let us know we have being abusing guilds since day 1 of guilds
its like joining the united states army and than helping the Alkida and going back and forth.
and its like recruiting random people to guilds and kicking then.
we have no sense of compition because we all switch guilds.

I agree that guilds would be more balanced if we were limited to 25 slots + real allies, but I don't see it changing any time soon. Personally, I enjoyed having 25 excellent members in astro more than the 100+ in the tower guilds. Unfortunately, you either play by the rules established, or you'll be totally disadvantaged in towers Only way I can think of to get rid of the subs as allies system is to delete allies completely, which defeats the purpose.  

yeah me and my friends are going to try to be like US, venture and ch4rm, and use the guild system in its correct way. idk how well its gonna work out, since we just started. but were hopeing to get experienced players, and good allies to it. we might not be as pro as these guilds, but at least we'll be fair.  

go for it! as long as your name is not anything like those US2 Fegs.  

Ok look, we have our opinions ok? Some people want to use there guilds as subs to a tower guild, some want to use it as a spar guild and have no allies. And others just want to ally there friends guild, chillax, and MAKE new friends. It's no big deal k? We all have our different perspectives of what makes a great guild, and you complaining about it wont change people's opinions and differences.  

Posted by qes

go for it! as long as your name is not anything like those US2 Fegs.

lol no. right now its dimension. but we may change it. so far its me, mentos, papyrus, and a john guy who i dont really know too well. we got a few people who have shown interest in it, but were getting everything figured out first.  

Thank god maybe we could have some friendly rivalries and wars for christ sake.