Posted by SomeGuy

Sorry but being an admin of a game can't be called a job.

Right. But as a matter of fact, working on such games helps in real life.
You develop new skills (developement staffs), which you can use for in real life business.
I know some of iEra staffs who actually, got offers from other bigger games company, they all started as admins.  

Working on Graal servers got me good enough to actually earn cash from making graphics, and yeah, as Kirzey said, it helps you a ton irl. You develop people skills.  

Posted by Colin

Given there's about 730 hours in a month, 50 hours isn't really that much.

There's ~151.9 working hours in a month if you go by the 35 hours per week the French (e.g. Portha) usually work. Three volunteers and you've got a full time employee at that rate. What you're saying here is that meeting a part time job's expectations, on top of working a full time job, whether that's being a student or working professionally, isn't really that much. I spend around the same amount of time doing extra outside of my job, and I get greater than $1000 worth of value out of that time per month.  

Personally I still 'work' for Graal because of the people, but also definitely because of the learning opportunities. I can promise I wouldn't have anywhere near this much experience doing graphics had I not applied. I really enjoy doing pixel art and it gives me a reason to that other people can enjoy. Don't really care about gralat payments so I don't actually pay attention to them  

Posted by deadowl

There's ~151.9 working hours in a month if you go by the 35 hours per week the French (e.g. Portha) usually work. Three volunteers and you've got a full time employee at that rate. What you're saying here is that meeting a part time job's expectations, on top of working a full time job, whether that's being a student or working professionally, isn't really that much. I spend around the same amount of time doing extra outside of my job, and I get greater than $1000 worth of value out of that time per month.

You make 0 sense lol

People who become admins do it cause they already invest their time in Graal, and we are talking about one person not three, so yah 50 hours isn't that much for a kid who doesn't hold a full-time job and pretty much spends more hours than that monthly just playing Graal normally

Also it's not a job, there are no "expectations" they just volunteer to help out on spare time which most GP's have a lot of, which is why I said 50 hours isn't much for someone in that situation  

I get paid in blood of my enemies  

Posted by Colin

Also it's not a job, there are no "expectations" they just volunteer to help out on spare time which most GP's have a lot of, which is why I said 50 hours isn't much for someone in that situation

Fifty hours is an expectation. Being Graal staff is a job, it's just a job that's typically held by someone who has no vested interest in doing their job well. If they do their job well, then they're acting in no different capacity than an employee would, which borders on exploitation.  

Posted by deadowl

Fifty hours is an expectation. Being Graal staff is a job, it's just a job that's typically held by someone who has no vested interest in doing their job well. If they do their job well, then they're acting in no different capacity than an employee would, which borders on exploitation.

We do it because we want to and we enjoy it. No one is forcing us to. Only reason there's a minimum hour requirement is so people don't volunteer just for the shiny staff tag (which I'm sure a lot of people would do). like any volunteer job, if you don't actually DO anything then why even volunteer?

Also I'm pretty sure the minimum requirement is 10 hours a week unless it's changed... which really isn't much...less than 1 1/2 hours a day if you log on every day, which is far from a full time job (and clumping 3 volunteers together to get that doesn't count as a full- time worker so i don't know where you got that idea). I don't think we're really even strict about it as long as you come somewhat close either.  

Posted by Crono

you gonna prove it or just continue to bull**** like a ******?

Most 'older' people are unlikely able to accommodate the job of being an admin, due to real life stuff such as jobs. Note the 'most' part, meaning not all admins are young.  

Posted by deadowl

it's just a job that's typically held by someone who has no vested interest in doing their job well.

This is an assumption made, with absolutely no basis at all, that most of us have no interest in doing our jobs as GPs well.

Posted by SomeGuy

Most 'older' people are unlikely able to accommodate the job of being an admin, due to real life stuff such as jobs. Note the 'most' part, meaning not all admins are young.

This isn't necessarily true. It is possible for someone to juggle a job and moderate a game at the same time seeing that you'd only need to do about an hour or so a day. Taking that what you say is true, there are players >12 years old who have the time and the interest. Claiming that staff are mostly 12 year olds is therefore rather ridiculous.  

Yeah deadowl, I don't think you understand the laws properly on this

If somebody agrees to volunteer for something knowing they aren't getting paid, that's not exploiting them because they applied on their own free will knowing it would be like that

To clarify the 50 hour thing, that isn't the minimum requirement if that's what you were confused on, we are just talking about one GP who did that much in a month which I said wasn't as bad as OP thinks because that person normally invests that much time if not more into Graal per month

Also, I'm not saying being a GP is a super easy job but it's also not that hard of a job (not trying to discredit the GP team, appreciate your work), I don't think you can properly compare it to working as a real employee for some place there's a huge difference between the two, when I say being a GP is not that hard of a job I just mean when they are doing it they are on their computer doing other things as well, being on a computer for lets say 8 hours a day and doing the tasks of a GP while doing other things on your computer you enjoy is much easier than being an employee at a real place and spending 8 hours doing something with 100% focus so you can't really compare them

As for the developers, just read Coco's post, I'm not sure why you are trying to argue they are being exploited when every one who is actually staff are clearly stating why they do it and that they are okay with it and enjoy it  

Posted by SomeGuy

Most 'older' people are unlikely able to accommodate the job of being an admin, due to real life stuff such as jobs. Note the 'most' part, meaning not all admins are young.

That doesn't apply for everyone, I have a job irl, and I still log in iEra daily, to do what has to be done.
That's the case for most staffs on iEra, who are old enough to work irl.  

Posted by Coco

We do it because we want to and we enjoy it. No one is forcing us to. Only reason there's a minimum hour requirement is so people don't volunteer just for the shiny staff tag (which I'm sure a lot of people would do). like any volunteer job, if you don't actually DO anything then why even volunteer?

Also I'm pretty sure the minimum requirement is 10 hours a week unless it's changed... which really isn't much...less than 1 1/2 hours a day if you log on every day, which is far from a full time job (and clumping 3 volunteers together to get that doesn't count as a full- time worker so i don't know where you got that idea). I don't think we're really even strict about it as long as you come somewhat close either.

The minimum requirement is not that bad then.
If I remember correctly the minimum hour requirement was mostly targetted to graal police aswell since graphics are made outside of the game.
Development is another story but I do know someone can spend hours on it and enjoy it aswell.


Thanks for everyone discussing the topic though, was quite interesting to see some of your thoughts and feelings about it.
Also nice to see that people enjoy what they do, definitely made me think more positive about it all  

Posted by SomeGuy

Most 'older' people are unlikely able to accommodate the job of being an admin, due to real life stuff such as jobs. Note the 'most' part, meaning not all admins are young.

except they're not 12  

TBH I dont recall being a staff a 'job', it's moreover a hobby. Like you play soccer in Africa, and you get scouted. A hobby gets you to somewhere where you may get payed well.

When I started coding and doing animations for Graal I had several offers aswell. But seeing coding and animating as a hobby, I turned those offers down. Instead, I decided to study laws and it was one of the best decisions I made. It differs from people to people, from personality to personality. I even stated being staff on Graal for a GameMaster spot at AERIA Games and RIOT, both then asked me for an interview because it was an interesting point @ my CV. Being Graal staff, while taking it serious, has it advantages. Everyone who wants to, should go for it - you may need that experience one day.

Personal note: don't judge my English skills at dis very Moment.