Solutions to tower dominance - 3

twilit · 06-11-2012

Posted by RifRaff

Stop complaining Bin.

You guys at Voyage have taken castle from CJ. You know that. So did Nerv. It's not that hard, you have to actually use your brains though.

tower taking does NOT require brains. attack together. sword spam flag. kill defenders. the only brain you need is general knowledge of how certain towers work.

Joseph · 06-12-2012

Posted by twilit

York has 2 ways to get to flag. itd be nice if sardons had a second door in traproom to get to flag. maybe in one of the east corners of the room becuz theres no reason to go to east corner of traproom besides dying.

i have the right to post what i want. I was only saying that all the "boo-hoo towers are too hard. CoM n CXE have no life. Make towers easier" threads are REALLY annoying. No, towers arent hard, you just gotta be better.

I understand that York and Sardon's Tower have some neat gimmicks that break up the monotony a bit. I especially like the exploding barrels in the underground portion of the York tower, they're fun to mess with.

As for your asserations that the "towers aren't hard", that's only half-true. Taking towers isn't hard if you have a large number of guild members that can outmatch the controlling guild's forces. If you don't though, taking towers is so impractical that you might as well not even try. The only possible way you could capture a tower with only 4-5 guys in a practical manner is if the controlling guild screws up in some way and you get lucky. And even if you manage to take the tower, good luck trying to defend it with such a small force to work with.

And I'm sorry you find people complaining about unfairness "annoying", perhaps you should try starting your own guild and try to capture a tower with only a handful of recruits, and maybe you'll see why people are complaining in the first place.

Posted by twilit

tower taking does NOT require brains.

And that's a large part of the reason why many consider taking towers to be a boring, mindless activity. I'll reiterate, what exactly is so fun about mindlessly charging the enemy over and over until your whole iPhone shuts itself off out of boredom?

Rezon · 06-12-2012

Posted by Joseph

The problem here isn't an issue of player skill, it's an issue of poor design.

The fact is, the current tower-taking system is poorly thought out, not fun, not fair, and overall just really ******ed. I mean, seriously. Where's the fun of mindlessly charging the enemy over and over again until you capture the tower or just give up out of boredom?

Yes it is player skill, the entire community cares more about the messages they send in the guild chat rather than the guy attacking the flag.

Back before the MoD changes, people would mindlessly run in 1 at a time, lending the defender to hit 20 guild members and only take 0.5 damage. If people had a brain, and if the iPhone server was more like competitive PC games which involve communication, the scene would be much different.

Unfortunately, were stuck with online hipsters.

Joseph · 06-12-2012

Posted by Rezon

Yes it is player skill, the entire community cares more about the messages they send in the guild chat rather than the guy attacking the flag.

Back before the MoD changes, people would mindlessly run in 1 at a time, lending the defender to hit 20 guild members and only take 0.5 damage. If people had a brain, and if the iPhone server was more like competitive PC games which involve communication, the scene would be much different.

Unfortunately, were stuck with online hipsters.

This is a valid point, I'm afraid... Something I didn't quite think about in regards to tower-taking.

I could go on a long-winded rant about how people treat Graal like a social networking site as a opposed to an actual game, but that will be for another time.

Still, it doesn't invalidate my original gripes. In fact I think the multiple points idea would stop this kind of behavior (or it could drive away all the idiots who don't want to have to actually think and strategize and hurt Cyberjoueurs' profits... *sigh*, good Christ...)

Pazx · 06-12-2012

Posted by Rezon

Back before the MoD changes, people would mindlessly run in 1 at a time, lending the defender to hit 20 guild members and only take 0.5 damage. If people had a brain, and if the iPhone server was more like competitive PC games which involve communication, the scene would be much different.

Did you just compare Graal to competitive gaming?

It's not like there would be much to it anyway. Just arrow them out of the doorway, stop them getting back up. ez.

Kendama · 06-12-2012

I would just like to say I support the ideas of more than one "attack points" at a fort, more than one pathways to flag, and more gimmicks (sardon spikes/barrels).

Look at York . Besides guild house groupind at flag, it's really cool to see how attacking and defending can actually have a strategy.
When attacking it's smart to have an "archer" (usually me c: ) that goes through the tunnel and then when he exits into flag room he begins to shoot people coming from tent (left side of flag) back so they cannot get into the action.

Also in defending, members are spread up into (flag healers/cave blockers/outside path blockers)

All I can say is more forts like York= a happier ken.

twilit · 06-12-2012

Posted by Joseph

As for your asserations that the "towers aren't hard", that's only half-true. Taking towers isn't hard if you have a large number of guild members that can outmatch the controlling guild's forces. If you don't though, taking towers is so impractical that you might as well not even try. The only possible way you could capture a tower with only 4-5 guys in a practical manner is if the controlling guild screws up in some way and you get lucky. And even if you manage to take the tower, good luck trying to defend it with such a small force to work with

=__= lemme repeat:

Posted by twilit

QUALITY NOT QUANTITY

for example: just last night, 3 of my friends jacked swamp from 20 lazy butt Serene hat hunters. another dude n i joined in and the 5 of defended 20serene for 10min. if we were serious about wanting to keep it, the ideal thing would e been to mass recruit friends.

Joseph · 06-12-2012

Posted by twilit

for example: just last night, 3 of my friends jacked swamp from 20 lazy butt Serene hat hunters. another dude n i joined in and the 5 of defended 20serene for 10min. if we were serious about wanting to keep it, the ideal thing would e been to mass recruit friends.

Okay, I'll give you that. Yes, the quantity doesn't matter if the members aren't doing their jobs right, like what happened in your case.

Still, that really just goes back to what I said earlier about luck. Your ability to take tower shouldn't rely on the chance that the controlling guild is going to be a lazy *** about defending it. And believe me, it is a chance. The other day me and five other guys tried to take Snow from a group of about 20, and all of them ganged up on us and slaughtered us.

Fireenn · 06-12-2012

How would one change the design of a guild? Like any other game you can probably have the top 10 sparrers/pkers against a guild with 25 members. Like any other game (where everyone is on the same playing field) numbers will dominate skill as long as they have a sense of direction.

To change the way towers work will ultimately change the way guilds work.

From what I'm seeing it's just numbers and loyalty towards a guild. To reduce the numbers you would probably get rid of allies to actually limit the guild members to 25 not 150(assuming each ally has each other allied). Back in 2010 players complained about not having enough members to help.

So my question is would you want to get rid of allies or keep them? It seems like the main issue is just the number of people who actually defend, who don't hinder the guild (actually allied to the guild).

Imprint · 06-12-2012

Throw more logs into the fire, it won't keep burning.

Ph8 · 06-12-2012

Think this is getting way too complicated. The main problem is just that the design of the towers (outside of mod) is awful because they all give way too much of advantage to the defenders. There's no point in really even trying to take them.

Rezon · 06-12-2012

Posted by Pazx

Did you just compare Graal to competitive gaming?

It's not like there would be much to it anyway. Just arrow them out of the doorway, stop them getting back up. ez.

no:

Posted by Rezon

Back before the MoD changes, people would mindlessly run in 1 at a time, lending the defender to hit 20 guild members and only take 0.5 damage. If people had a brain, and if the iPhone server was more like competitive PC games which involve communication, the scene would be much different.

Unfortunately, were stuck with online hipsters.

Bandit · 06-12-2012

Like Fireen said, you cannot change the tower system without changing the guild system first. I would like to see a system where skill overpowers numbers. Few ideas I had concerning guilds were,

-Ability to only join 1 guild to enforce loyalty and no guild swapping for guild hats.

-A penalty for leaving your guild, for example you cannot join another one for a few days.

-No sub guilds, to do this you could still have allies, but if you follow my 1st bullet they could only join 1 guild so you cannot recruit temporary members.

-Stll think 25 members is a good number to keep the guild max at,

-Add powers to guild members that make it so they cannot actually be kicked instead of just having "Perm" in their name.

Now regarding towers here are a few ideas I have,

-First of all restart the whole leaderboard, at first everyone will see this and think I am an idiot, but if you want a new system you cannot keep these leaderboards as they will be inaccurate. For all the guilds who are on leaderboards atm you can make a special building so people can see that they were in the leaderboards before the new system, also they could be rewarded somehow for their hard work varying on their hours. For example CoM will get something different than a 100 hour guild. Once everyone is satisfied the new system could start.

-Like Joseph stated, I think mutliple points to takeover would offer a bigger challenge then just guarding a small flag with one opening. All the towers should be redone, where they would contain many different entrances, npc traps, and command post. For the command post if you take one over your whole guild could spam there until the defenders recapture it or you takeover the whole fort.

I have more ideas, but cannot remember them atm. Also I have another complete new system for era basing, but since era isn't affiliated with graalians anymore there is no point of posting it.

Craftz Cheese · 06-13-2012

Knowing admins, if all of you keep complaining they will remove towers completely. Stop complaining and actually work hard for towers. The guilds who hold towers 24/7 work hard. you need to work hard to take them.

Sungwonc01 · 06-15-2012

What Craftz means: If you spent less time complaining about how hard it is, maybe you could actually get a tower.

06-12-2012	36
Kendama Delteria Manager Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: USA Posts: 2,474	I would just like to say I support the ideas of more than one "attack points" at a fort, more than one pathways to flag, and more gimmicks (sardon spikes/barrels). Look at York . Besides guild house groupind at flag, it's really cool to see how attacking and defending can actually have a strategy. When attacking it's smart to have an "archer" (usually me c: ) that goes through the tunnel and then when he exits into flag room he begins to shoot people coming from tent (left side of flag) back so they cannot get into the action. Also in defending, members are spread up into (flag healers/cave blockers/outside path blockers) All I can say is more forts like York= a happier ken.

06-12-2012	39
Fireenn Feare Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: On the Earth Posts: 360	How would one change the design of a guild? Like any other game you can probably have the top 10 sparrers/pkers against a guild with 25 members. Like any other game (where everyone is on the same playing field) numbers will dominate skill as long as they have a sense of direction. To change the way towers work will ultimately change the way guilds work. From what I'm seeing it's just numbers and loyalty towards a guild. To reduce the numbers you would probably get rid of allies to actually limit the guild members to 25 not 150(assuming each ally has each other allied). Back in 2010 players complained about not having enough members to help. So my question is would you want to get rid of allies or keep them? It seems like the main issue is just the number of people who actually defend, who don't hinder the guild (actually allied to the guild).

06-12-2012	40
Imprint Registered User Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,992	Throw more logs into the fire, it won't keep burning.

06-12-2012	41
Ph8 Unregistered User Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: NY Posts: 257	Think this is getting way too complicated. The main problem is just that the design of the towers (outside of mod) is awful because they all give way too much of advantage to the defenders. There's no point in really even trying to take them.

06-12-2012	43
Bandit Obsidian Reborn Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 395	Like Fireen said, you cannot change the tower system without changing the guild system first. I would like to see a system where skill overpowers numbers. Few ideas I had concerning guilds were, -Ability to only join 1 guild to enforce loyalty and no guild swapping for guild hats. -A penalty for leaving your guild, for example you cannot join another one for a few days. -No sub guilds, to do this you could still have allies, but if you follow my 1st bullet they could only join 1 guild so you cannot recruit temporary members. -Stll think 25 members is a good number to keep the guild max at, -Add powers to guild members that make it so they cannot actually be kicked instead of just having "Perm" in their name. Now regarding towers here are a few ideas I have, -First of all restart the whole leaderboard, at first everyone will see this and think I am an idiot, but if you want a new system you cannot keep these leaderboards as they will be inaccurate. For all the guilds who are on leaderboards atm you can make a special building so people can see that they were in the leaderboards before the new system, also they could be rewarded somehow for their hard work varying on their hours. For example CoM will get something different than a 100 hour guild. Once everyone is satisfied the new system could start. -Like Joseph stated, I think mutliple points to takeover would offer a bigger challenge then just guarding a small flag with one opening. All the towers should be redone, where they would contain many different entrances, npc traps, and command post. For the command post if you take one over your whole guild could spam there until the defenders recapture it or you takeover the whole fort. I have more ideas, but cannot remember them atm. Also I have another complete new system for era basing, but since era isn't affiliated with graalians anymore there is no point of posting it.

06-13-2012	44
Craftz Cheese Craftz Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 91	Knowing admins, if all of you keep complaining they will remove towers completely. Stop complaining and actually work hard for towers. The guilds who hold towers 24/7 work hard. you need to work hard to take them.

06-15-2012	45
Sungwonc01 Slightly Amazing. Join Date: Sep 2011 Posts: 1,109	What Craftz means: If you spent less time complaining about how hard it is, maybe you could actually get a tower.