so basically:
call of duty has players with millions of kills on the top of their leaderboards, this is dumb and they don't deserve anything for spending all of that time. i don't care about how many wins you guys had on pc. that was not even the same game. this was an ipod app before we let you guys in. if i kill 50,000 people on an xbox version of a call of duty game, should i have those 50,000 kills on the playstation version? they're the same thing! different platform! you won a lot of spars on pc classic, that's cool, you guys can all share that with each other as an old memory. this is a different platform. not to mention we have 3 hearts instead of 20 or whatever you guys have over there, and if you only had 3 hearts there your amounts of wins/losses would be different. that can't be translated over. welcome to our game, where the sparring is not even the exact same thing as yours. you're late, deal with it.

you think boosters will have high spots when they have to play 4 times as much to equal the amount of wins as someone who is streaking. and this leaderboard doesn't even show the best active sparrers. look at #3 on pc, maxy???? what???? look at #6 on idevice, some dude who is barely even positive????? wow the skill represented on this leaderboard is insane, no noobs on it at all.

selective sparring is not against the rules but frowned upon by the majority of the community. nothing will ever stop this, as i just said. deal with them. boosting is against the rules. people have been reset for this many times.

i'm done responding to this for the day, you two will keep defending your system no matter how many flaws it has.  

"the current leaderboard only shows who da most no lifes are"
"what we really need is a leaderboard showing who has the most wins"

brain explodes

people like Shan and Sarah should receive some type of notoriety for their wins, because it's a huge achievement - that's why I've been begging to bring spar hats back
sitting people on top of a leaderboard permanently is just discouraging and unhealthy - the current state of the PKs/BKs leaderboards is clear proof of that

I'd actually support something in the library that shows who has the most wins, or even some type of statue of the player with the most wins on the server, but I don't see what an all-time leaderboard achieves for when we're talking about the one activity in Graal that is in some way measurable by skill level
leaderboards are for active players  

- iGraal wouldn't exist if client Graal was never created. You can thank Rufus, Dusty, Xor and others for bringing it to you.

- "BRING BACK SPAR HATS" thread is right under this one, which more accurately represents what should happen when you reach 10k, 25k, 50k etc wins.

- "Just deal with them" is such an incredibly stupid, simplistic way of dealing with the issue when your very own system ENCOURAGES people to do it.

I know you're only leaving now because I was going to ask you how you came to the conclusion that the current system encourages boosting/selective sparring. Because it only encourages you to spar the best people. I'll even go as far as saying it discourages people to boost because they don't get anything out of it besides a score that most players don't believe, and once they start sparring decent people they end up giving them a buttload of points.

All in all: I'll give you the benefit of the doubt by saying that I don't even think you really believe half the things you're saying are true. 'cause if you do, well then damn.. idk  

i'm leaving because i am very sure that you are only even defending this idea because your friend thallen came up with it and i am 100% sure that thallen is only defending his own idea because it is his own idea.

i don't see ANYWHERE in this thread where i said that the current system encourages selective sparring either, i see me saying that the system is doing nothing to prevent it as there will always be selective sparrers and they do not care about this leaderboard.

i do believe everything that i've said here because everything i have said about this leaderboard and a wins leaderboard has been mostly accurate. if i type something that looks dumb i reread it a few times and redo it. not even going to bother restating myself again, turn back to the first page and start reading. this leaderboard sucks, a wins leaderboard would accomplish more.  

how about making the leaderboard system based on their W-L ratio? then make it D/W/All time so new players can catch up. And also make it that there is a least amount of win u must get to be in each leaderboard to counter boosters.  

I haven't read everything posted yet, so I apologize in advance if this had already been stated. Why not implement a Daily / Weekly / Overall leaderboard similar to how the PK & BK leaderboards are set up? It may not show who the most "skillful" players are, but neither does the current system. The addition of a daily leaderboard would encourage day-to-day activity, rather than discourage someone who starts sparring late in the season.

If I wanted to start sparring again I'd likely have to dedicate 6-8 hours a day to sparring just to place higher on the score board. If there was a leaderboard that showed short term progression rather than just "who played the most from month X to X". It would certainly motivate players such as myself to step into the arena more often.  

Posted by Comyt

NOTHING is ever going to stop selective sparring. it still happened in the old leaderboard, it is definitely happening with this one

The implication here is explicit.

And for the record: I'm just using my brain to defend this leaderboard system. Has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that Thallen suggested it. I'm genuinely surprised that's even being questioned because I expected more of you to have minimal critical thinking skills.

How DOESN'T the current system show who's skillful? It's just presenting who has won most frequently (but more importantly who has won most frequently against very skilled players with good W-L ratios).

I'm still confused as to how you are defending the fact that 1 point per spar is indicative of skill? It just takes a ton of time and will power to get high on that board. Would sarah deserve to be on top of the "all time spar leader board" if her record was 70,000-20,000,00?

No. Because she lost twenty million times and only won seventy thousand times.  

The amount of side room bashing I see is outrageous, they're named quick spar and exist for a ****ing reason.  

Posted by Zetectic

It shouldn't be based off of ur skill. should be based on ur dedication.

I don't really care about the old/new spar system because they both have their flaws(from reading the previous posts) but I don't think the scoreboard should be based on dedication. The spar community seems to be the only place on Graal left that has any competition so I would like to see a scoreboard that shows skills rather than dedication. If someone really wanted to be on the top 100 list, then they would be dedicated enough to practice and get better in spar !!!  

Posted by Chun

how about making the leaderboard system based on their W-L ratio? then make it D/W/All time so new players can catch up. And also make it that there is a least amount of win u must get to be in each leaderboard to counter boosters.

it's a really good idea in theory, but it's very, very abusable because people are always going to prey on noobs to pretty up their ratio
the current leaderboard would be just fine if it was broken up into daily/weekly/seasonal leaderboards

there's no realistic way to abuse a leaderboard where you earn points equal to the ratio of the player you beat
selectively sparring low-ratio players = you earn low points  

I forgot to mention.. Graal is a game, not a competition. From a business standpoint it would be beneficial to add a Daily leaderboard to encourage activity in the sparring community, and potentially help grow it. With over 3,000 people on at a time it's a shame to see less than 50 people in the Arena at any given time (Not including Guild Spar).

Off topic, but another idea I have would be to implement similar improvements to Guild Sparring leaderboards, as well as publicly show a Guild W:L.  

how is saying that selective sparring is still happening with this leaderboard in place the same as saying that this leaderboard promotes it?

and obviously this 70,000-2million thing isn't going to happen.
look where we are at right now:
shan-73-10
sarah-72-10
kevin-69-10
vlad-55-15
me-54-11

-
-
-
-
-

kaios: 18k-17k

nearly impossible  

The only thing I don't understand is how does the current system measure skill if loses don't affect you.


Players obsessions with reaching the top of a flawed system is more cancerous than anything in the spar community. I'm pretty sure Brett enjoys being stalked by obsessive derpys in an attempt to leech off his points.


Last thing, these 2 systems have been around for a while and no one has gotten a reputation of a skilled sparer from them.  

Posted by Klay

it would be beneficial to add a Daily leaderboard to encourage activity in the sparring community

agreed 100%, anything that stimulates activity and less "careful" sparring is good
activity and skill are both things that should be rewarded in sparring  

"This system doesn't let you have a life! You have to spar 3 months to get a spot on top! How about a system that only rewards the people who mindlessly spar every single day as many times as they possibly can and try to rack up as many wins (doesn't matter if they're facing noobs or not) as they possibly can to top the daily/weekly/all time board?"

Counter intuitive.