end of story  

if you consider some presumptive new guild system without a clear date of introduction and without any promises being made as the messiah that will change everything and before it comes, Graal is basically unplayable, then that's your fault

what ruins Graal are exactly those people complaining about how bad Graal is because 'the ngs hasn't arrived'. this 'ngs is a hoax' line is being used to generate a 'we-feeling'; the poor, hardworking Graalians on the one and the lazy developers on the other side, all this is just self-entertainment on the lowest possible level. play Graal because of its spirit or don't play it

also, even if the 'NGS' occured one day, it wouldn't even solve the fundamental problems of Graal such as the exponentially increasing amount of trash connection players  

I don't Care About Guild System. I'm Only waiting for the Release of Babord (or Another Town) and I'm good  

ha ha ha  

Posted by Harriskar

I don't Care About Guild System. I'm Only waiting for the Release of Babord (or Another Town) and I'm good

The more I play the 2004 version the more I realize how much I want that stuff in iclassic. The problem is though any reward items that could be used to an advantage would have to be replaced by aesthetic prizes.

Then again, iclassic wouldn't be able to handle too many dungeons and a lot of the 2004 map is pointless thus they would have to do something to bring life to the area. Honestly babord is the only town that already has some quest ideas they could use and maybe Avalon too but less likely. Nimda? Well, the best idea for iclassic was the rat form quest which already exists in onnet forest unless they figured out how they could use the forest differently.

another place I want to see in iclassic is Faery well and of course the actual inside of Horus's pyramid. It would also be interesting to see a remake of 2004's antago's gravity tower, it is similar to iclassic's cliff climber event.  

I wish for the Subforum to be renamed to "Classic Guild Center" instead of Centre.  

Posted by Droon

if you consider some presumptive new guild system without a clear date of introduction and without any promises being made as the messiah that will change everything and before it comes, Graal is basically unplayable, then that's your fault

what ruins Graal are exactly those people complaining about how bad Graal is because 'the ngs hasn't arrived'. this 'ngs is a hoax' line is being used to generate a 'we-feeling'; the poor, hardworking Graalians on the one and the lazy developers on the other side, all this is just self-entertainment on the lowest possible level. play Graal because of its spirit or don't play it


also, even if the 'NGS' occured one day, it wouldn't even solve the fundamental problems of Graal such as the exponentially increasing amount of trash connection players

I guess you're agreeing with the devs promising the community something, taking what they once had away, and never replacing it. I'm sorry, but most of us don't like that stuff going on. So of course we're going to complain about it. What you expect? For us to just forget about the devs telling us that there will be a better system which will make towering better for us as a whole? No. That's just sad.  

You are not supposed to 'forget' a promise that has been made because that promise actually has never been made. Perhaps there were vague statements that eventually something of that nature might occur plus, later on, two screenshots of the 'new system' being posted. This entire rumour 'i heard ngs comes next week' or stuff like that is made up by the attention-seeking gossiping part of the community. The devs could not have announced anything in the first place, but then wouldn't everybody be complaining about how there is zero will of the devs to improve anything?

Now you will argue that, if it wasn't certain when exactly a new system would come, the devs atleast shouldn't have removed the 1k hats this early. May I ask you if you ever thought through why those got removed at all? Do you think the devs were like 'were planning a new guild system in which we wont need the 1k hats anymore so lets already remove them now, oops now suddenly we realized this new system takes us much longer than we thought, sorry about that'? The 1k hats and the other towering reward hats were a MISTAKE and they corrected that mistake. Would you have wanted them to wait correcting a mistake instead of doing that instantly?

(The reason they were a mistake are obvious, I think I already talked about that in some previous threads: noob abuse, unfair distribution and more. We can talk about how guilds and towering should work in a separate thread.)

Now, your thesis is that by removing those rewards, the motivation and the fun are gone.

Perhaps at first, spontaneously, that is understandable. Something has been taken away so the situation must have gotten worse, that is the reflex of the brain. Thinking it through though, the 1k hat removal has improved things by alot because (trying to sum it up in one sentence, I wrote an essay about that topic on my website) since there are no material rewards anymore, players are forced to base their strength on a good spirit only instead of making random players hat promises so they quickly help out.

For classic 'towerers' who did those 1k trips for years, that might take some time to realize. The 1k hat removal has definitly improved the spirit of fighting. There are two reasons for towering being 'dead':
1) major pkers retiring because they feel scammed by the devs with that NGS issue, causing an avalanche of more retiring until we now have a bitter, ridiculous bunch of Graalians who feel like there is a conspiracy going on
2) (and the MUCH bigger issue) the increasing amount of treshold country players who swarmed over the server - talking about their unstable connections obviously. THAT is the real problem of Graal Classic.  

Posted by Droon

You are not supposed to 'forget' a promise that has been made because that promise actually has never been made. Perhaps there were vague statements that eventually something of that nature might occur plus, later on, two screenshots of the 'new system' being posted. This entire rumour 'i heard ngs comes next week' or stuff like that is made up by the attention-seeking gossiping part of the community. The devs could not have announced anything in the first place, but then wouldn't everybody be complaining about how there is zero will of the devs to improve anything?

Now you will argue that, if it wasn't certain when exactly a new system would come, the devs atleast shouldn't have removed the 1k hats this early. May I ask you if you ever thought through why those got removed at all? Do you think the devs were like 'were planning a new guild system in which we wont need the 1k hats anymore so lets already remove them now, oops now suddenly we realized this new system takes us much longer than we thought, sorry about that'? The 1k hats and the other towering reward hats were a MISTAKE and they corrected that mistake. Would you have wanted them to wait correcting a mistake instead of doing that instantly?

(The reason they were a mistake are obvious, I think I already talked about that in some previous threads: noob abuse, unfair distribution and more. We can talk about how guilds and towering should work in a separate thread.)

Now, your thesis is that by removing those rewards, the motivation and the fun are gone.

Perhaps at first, spontaneously, that is understandable. Something has been taken away so the situation must have gotten worse, that is the reflex of the brain. Thinking it through though, the 1k hat removal has improved things by alot because (trying to sum it up in one sentence, I wrote an essay about that topic on my website) since there are no material rewards anymore, players are forced to base their strength on a good spirit only instead of making random players hat promises so they quickly help out.

For classic 'towerers' who did those 1k trips for years, that might take some time to realize. The 1k hat removal has definitly improved the spirit of fighting. There are two reasons for towering being 'dead':
1) major pkers retiring because they feel scammed by the devs with that NGS issue, causing an avalanche of more retiring until we now have a bitter, ridiculous bunch of Graalians who feel like there is a conspiracy going on
2) (and the MUCH bigger issue) the increasing amount of treshold country players who swarmed over the server - talking about their unstable connections obviously. THAT is the real problem of Graal Classic.

What are you even saying, that all leaders before the removal of the 1k are scammers trying to get their own hat? I agree with some of that, but there is only a few that even made it to that point. Also, that's the most hypocritical thing with you've said with you saying that leaders mostly scam noobs into helping them. But that's is the same degree that the devs are doing to the ENTIRE community. Yet you're defending them.

The next thing I don't understand is that you said, that the removal of 1k has improved a lot of things. Yet you just said that the removal of the 1k cause an avalanche of MAJOR pkers to retire. Which are, believe it or not, the soul of the community. How are we supposed to keep calm and look for guidance when the soul is gone?

Mistake or not. 1k was the motivation of the community. And the removal of 1k's devastated the community. THERE WAS NO SORRY, THE NGS TOOK LONGER THAN EXPECTED. You heard it from FP4 himself! He's too lazy to work on it! He's not even busy! He's lazy!

Look at the big picture. The devs took out a reward system we relied on. And still do, I know you see many guilds with their 1k goal up there. We still do it. Also, things such as 5k and 10ks, shouldn't have been taken out in the first place. They are a very rare goal which are met by guilds.

The overall of the decision made was one of the most poorest decisions I've EVER seen during my history of gaming. I honestly see no point in this "spirit" thing you're talking about when not even the people we look up to are gone, and the devs not giving explanations.  

The classic 1k hire and fire guilds do scam noobs, of course. noobs don't have many recruitments, they will take any offer they get, and those guilds gladly use them and tell them to spam the entries or whatever. that is not a controversal issue.

I am not defending anybody, personally I have no interest into guilds or competition anymore, I was just saying my opinion from a neutral point of view. That becomes very clear. I am not defending the devs by making the assumption that they do not have a naiv time management

Why can guilds not simply go for 1k for fun and based on friendship only, as I suggested? Sparrers go for 10k wins, 20k etc. too, there had been rewards for 6k and 20k spar wins in the past, those have been removed a long time ago already and still there are sparrers seeking their goals.

Let me guess, you guys grew up getting a reward for achievements? well, in that case Graal - a non-level-based game - might not a good place for that kind of thinking anyway, just mentioning that carefully. Isn't it much more the case that, without a material reward waiting at the end of the journey, towerers suddenly realize that sitting in (more or less frequented) flag rooms for hours is not exactly satisfying?

If an activity is only exciting when there's a prize at the end, perhaps that already says enough about that activity. I like debating about anything, but I think here I am the one who is looking at the big picture.  

You wouldn't work on it if you didn't get paid to, I wouldn't work on it if I didn't get paid to. I don't blame FP4, because he has zero incentive to finish it  

No one can really say if the new guild system would or wouldn’t make the game better, since no one except the developers have the full details on every feature that the system would bring

There have been hints, such as new rewards (not just towering), extra guild member space, less allies?, etc.

Your minds will perceive that, which was fun yesterday, is not the same today. You will find that graal will keep you entertained for a while, but the light will fade. My only recommendation is that you take a break from the game. Shouldn’t spend your time waiting for something that may/may not happen. Instead, you should fill your life with more productive activities.  

Alright to clear that whole noob hire & fire thing up.
I don't think it's anything bad to recruit noobs to towering guild, I think that stuff is even good, it's some motivation to get better for them, to improve their game. If you tower with noob guilds against noob guilds there isn't a high chance of getting better a lot, if you tower as a noob guild against pro guilds, you see their movements, see their strategies and you can take them and even improve them, towering right now is Ohana/ Sangue and a lot random guilds gaining hours in a tower with no goal.

The spirit in playing a game (my POV) is to get better, if I play in a noob guild vs a lot other noob guilds I prolly won't get better cause I already think I'm the shi.

The only issue I seen with the old towering system was that there were too many 1k guilds by the same leaders, truces and the whole camping in our home tower stuff. If all that would get changed a bit the game would feel alive again, there would be something to aim for and the towering part of the game would get better again.

I would just wish that they'd bring back towering, set the needed hours higher, make truces banable and maybe even add a system that gives 2-3 towers at a time 3x hours so that the, let's camp in our home tower guilds leave their tower and go for that tower.  

Posted by Agonee

Alright to clear that whole noob hire & fire thing up.
I don't think it's anything bad to recruit noobs to towering guild, I think that stuff is even good, it's some motivation to get better for them, to improve their game. If you tower with noob guilds against noob guilds there isn't a high chance of getting better a lot, if you tower as a noob guild against pro guilds, you see their movements, see their strategies and you can take them and even improve them, towering right now is Ohana/ Sangue and a lot random guilds gaining hours in a tower with no goal.

The spirit in playing a game (my POV) is to get better, if I play in a noob guild vs a lot other noob guilds I prolly won't get better cause I already think I'm the shi.

The only issue I seen with the old towering system was that there were too many 1k guilds by the same leaders, truces and the whole camping in our home tower stuff. If all that would get changed a bit the game would feel alive again, there would be something to aim for and the towering part of the game would get better again.

I would just wish that they'd bring back towering, set the needed hours higher, make truces banable and maybe even add a system that gives 2-3 towers at a time 3x hours so that the, let's camp in our home tower guilds leave their tower and go for that tower.

Man the truces in classic are literally nothing compared to the ones in ol'west , these ones are the worst I've ever seen in graal  

Ol'West basing is the hardest server right now to get into sadly... this is because if your not friends/peace with "Silence" then the whole server will come after you. Silence is sadly filled with admins and their retired players are admins. They rig basing to the next level, two times 3-4 gangs grouped up to kill silence but instead they were killed and replaced. Its hard to beat admins that give themselves every gun in the game then when their losing a war they host events knowing the attackers will leave :/

4/5 sheriffs are silence leads/retired silence leads
15+ deputies have came from silence.

The closest time Ol'West almost got rid of them sky was when my basing rotation idea was implemented. Then silence figured out a way to get truces back with a loop and basing rotations were removed. Still the admins complain about how everyones peacing each other when their own team is the problem of it.

One tip for classic staff:
Never Hire People In Family Guilds or Towering Guilds

Towering rotation could stop peacing on classic if none of the staff team is into towering but id recommend adding back york and snow if this ever was introduced since player count is so high compared to west, also 3 bases would need to close every 4 hrs instead of 2 like west did.