Posted by Engel

I cannot say if he does or doesn't exist; but what I do know that íf he exists he is an awfull person, if you see what happens (and happened) in the world..

It's not him doing it, it's the humanity. Why should god touch something the humans have been starting? People always have to learn / feel the pain (in this case) to actually learn. Just touching that and remove all weapons or however you imagine it (probably like in a game) would be plain wrong in my opinion. People sometimes just have to learn what they actually did/supported when they lose someone. If it is your time to die, it will be your time. Sure you are always upset than and probably nothing can change that on a normal human  

Spoiler

Is there really any way to prove the existence of God? It’s possible that either you believe or you don’t. Two separate paths branch out before each of us; the path of atheism on one hand and the path of God or gods on the other. One path denies accountability to any superior being other than that of nature’s collective consciousness. The other requires obedience and ultimate accountability to the government of a higher power. Atheism teaches that all things including our own existence are the result of chance. Theism (belief in god) ascribes design and order to supernatural intelligence. “Which do I choose?” is not really the most important question. Instead, the really big question is, “How do I decide,” or “How do I determine which one is the truth?” not “truth for me” but actual provable fact.
It’s rather ironic when you think about it, but there really is only one safe choice. If you choose the path of atheism and it turns out your wrong, you’re screwed! But if you choose the path of belief in God and it turns out you’re wrong, you’ve simply hedged your bet. You lose absolutely nothing by being wrong and you gain everything if you end up being right. As clearly rock solid as this logic may be, it still doesn’t answer the question, “What is the truth?”
It’s been said that the existence of a supreme being is self evident. But what does that really mean? I’m afraid I’m probably going to step on some toes here, but consider this. NASA sends a ship into outer space, to the moon, to Mars, wherever they want. Would you say that these spacecraft and their missions are the result of intelligent design and planning or merely the fortunate consequences of natural selection and chance? I realize that I’m being absurd here but I’m proving a point of self evident truth. How does it make any logical sense to attribute the existence and technology of spacecraft, computers, automobiles, and the like to intelligent design by human production, while at the same time pointing to the complex living mechanisms of this planet and asserting they are the result of natural accidental luck? Unlike modern technology, these creatures cannot be reproduced or duplicated in even the most technically scientific laboratory, I’m sorry, but logic and common sense does not tolerate two opposite conclusions to both be reckoned as truth. If intelligent design is responsible for all sophisticated and technical machinery, then there is a God. If all complex machinery organic or mechanical can be attributed to random chance then there is no need for a supreme being. The truth is self evident. The manufacturers label says, “Made by God.”

Callimuc, heres your goodies: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9235735AAsqya2  

Posted by GodoT

Callimuc, heres your goodies:

Oh please. All that person is saying has already been beaten out the window many many times and he has obviously not looked into the big bang or any theory for that matter.

Two separate paths branch out before each of us; the path of atheism on one hand and the path of God or gods on the other. One path denies accountability to any superior being other than that of nature’s collective consciousness. The other requires obedience and ultimate accountability to the government of a higher power.

This is bull crap. There isn't two paths, if you have an allegiance to one path you have a problem. I'm not atheist or religious, im whatever I believe is the most reliable answer to the universes existence and I dont have any opinion on a god because that is outside the realm of reason.

How does it make any logical sense to attribute the existence and technology of spacecraft, computers, automobiles, and the like to intelligent design by human production, while at the same time pointing to the complex living mechanisms of this planet and asserting they are the result of natural accidental luck?

Again, further proof this person does not have any experience on the other side of the argument. Hes just playing the "god" card to the seemingly high sophistication of our society. Its an illusion that our society is a society of high order. The waste we emit and the fact that we cannot produce more energy than we take in shows we are a society of decreasing order, or disorder.

What he is saying is basically the lowest form of rationality in this argument: that all of this is too complicated and shiny to come from a big bang and chance so somehow that means there must be a god because in his mind there's only two possibilities. And he is also gullible enough to fall for the "Hell" card (somehow the possible existence of a god deems that Christianity is right) to reel him in saying that he doesn't loose anything and I would loose everything. This person does not have enough education to yield a reliable answer. Again, i will point to the fantastic mind of Stephan hawking to make my statement:

Do we need a God to set it all up so a Big Bang can bang? … Our everyday experience makes us convinced that everything that happens must be caused by something that occurred earlier in time. So it’s natural for us to assume that something—perhaps God—must have caused the universe to come into existence. But when we’re talking about the universe as a whole, that isn’t necessarily so.
…
The role played by time at the beginning of the universe is, I believe, the final key to removing the need for a Grand Designer, and revealing how the universe created itself. … Time itself must come to a stop [at the singularity]. You can’t get to a time before the big bang, because there was no time before the big bang. We have finally found something that does not have a cause because there was no time for a cause to exist in. For me this means there is no possibility of a creator because there is no time for a creator to have existed. Since time itself began at the moment of the Big Bang, it was an event that could not have been caused or created by anyone or anything. … So when people ask me if a god created the universe, I tell them the question itself makes no sense. Time didn’t exist before the Big Bang, so there is no time for God to make the universe in. It’s like asking for directions to the edge of the Earth. The Earth is a sphere. It does not have an edge, so looking for it is a futile exercise.”[1]

~Stefan hawking  

Posted by GodoT

Spoiler

Is there really any way to prove the existence of God? It’s possible that either you believe or you don’t. Two separate paths branch out before each of us; the path of atheism on one hand and the path of God or gods on the other. One path denies accountability to any superior being other than that of nature’s collective consciousness. The other requires obedience and ultimate accountability to the government of a higher power. Atheism teaches that all things including our own existence are the result of chance. Theism (belief in god) ascribes design and order to supernatural intelligence. “Which do I choose?” is not really the most important question. Instead, the really big question is, “How do I decide,” or “How do I determine which one is the truth?” not “truth for me” but actual provable fact.
It’s rather ironic when you think about it, but there really is only one safe choice. If you choose the path of atheism and it turns out your wrong, you’re screwed! But if you choose the path of belief in God and it turns out you’re wrong, you’ve simply hedged your bet. You lose absolutely nothing by being wrong and you gain everything if you end up being right. As clearly rock solid as this logic may be, it still doesn’t answer the question, “What is the truth?”
It’s been said that the existence of a supreme being is self evident. But what does that really mean? I’m afraid I’m probably going to step on some toes here, but consider this. NASA sends a ship into outer space, to the moon, to Mars, wherever they want. Would you say that these spacecraft and their missions are the result of intelligent design and planning or merely the fortunate consequences of natural selection and chance? I realize that I’m being absurd here but I’m proving a point of self evident truth. How does it make any logical sense to attribute the existence and technology of spacecraft, computers, automobiles, and the like to intelligent design by human production, while at the same time pointing to the complex living mechanisms of this planet and asserting they are the result of natural accidental luck? Unlike modern technology, these creatures cannot be reproduced or duplicated in even the most technically scientific laboratory, I’m sorry, but logic and common sense does not tolerate two opposite conclusions to both be reckoned as truth. If intelligent design is responsible for all sophisticated and technical machinery, then there is a God. If all complex machinery organic or mechanical can be attributed to random chance then there is no need for a supreme being. The truth is self evident. The manufacturers label says, “Made by God.”

Callimuc, heres your goodies: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9235735AAsqya2

It’s rather ironic when you think about it, but there really is only one safe choice. If you choose the path of atheism and it turns out your wrong, you’re screwed! But if you choose the path of belief in God and it turns out you’re wrong, you’ve simply hedged your bet. You lose absolutely nothing by being wrong and you gain everything if you end up being right.

Sounds like a God fearing Christian. Again pushing religion as the only right choice.  

How about the Graal Gods?  

Posted by callimuc

It's not him doing it, it's the humanity. Why should god touch something the humans have been starting? People always have to learn / feel the pain (in this case) to actually learn. Just touching that and remove all weapons or however you imagine it (probably like in a game) would be plain wrong in my opinion. People sometimes just have to learn what they actually did/supported when they lose someone. If it is your time to die, it will be your time. Sure you are always upset than and probably nothing can change that on a normal human

So if you see a tsunami flooding half a country killing thousands of people or having an earthquake destroying many cities and with that taking many lives- is that our fault?  

Posted by Engel

So if you see a tsunami flooding half a country killing thousands of people or having an earthquake destroying many cities and with that taking many lives- is that our fault?

GLOBAL WARMINGGG CLIMATE CHANGE WE DIDNT LISTEN!!!

 

Posted by Engel

So if you see a tsunami flooding half a country killing thousands of people or having an earthquake destroying many cities and with that taking many lives- is that our fault?

No, that would be the Earth's and its natural forces. See this goes back to times when people thought the weather was controlled by gods. There is no higher being that controls these things, it's natural cause.  

Posted by Rexx

No, that would be the Earth's and its natural forces. See this goes back to times when people thought the weather was controlled by gods. There is no higher being that controls these things, it's natural cause.

But if someone dies there must be a reason to justify it and make their loved ones more comfortable! That's another reason why the devil is around. To slap evil on the names of people and events to make others feel better. I personally believe there is no such thing as evil. Even hitler is not an evil entity. No one is. That idea is dangerous and relative and the very thought of putting the name "Evil" to someone is irrational and strange to me.  

Posted by Rexx

Lol if gravity isn't real than how are you standing on your two feet without floating off into space? Now you're just being dumb.
Religion certainly isn't contributing to the peace of the world, it actually has a negative effect, so you can only imagine it would be better without it.
And it's only human nature that some people are violent or want to do bad things, and if religion is the only thing keeping someone from behaving like that then they need to seek help and join the rest of the modern 21st century.

Ethnic groups in the past have proven they can stand up for themselves I don't see why Muslims can't do the same. I guess they don't care that extremists represent their religion and convey a distorted image for the rest of them.

Gravity is only a theory. Sure, it makes sense, but how do we know there is this magical thing called "gravity" that keeps us from floating into space? Have you ever seen this "gravity" under a microscope, or seen pictures of this magical force called "gravity?" No, because it is only a theory, and you can not prove that it exists just like Christians can not prove that god exists.

Take a look at some local churches. Are you telling me that these people that do food drives and go out and help the homeless are not contributing any help? Are they causing problems by feeding the homeless? Yeah, I guess you're right, helping those less fortunate is putting a real damper on the rest of the world.

And yes ethnic groups have stood up for themselves in the past, and it is almost always met with oppression. I'm sure you wouldn't know what it is like since I'm guessing you are not a minority, but could you imagine trying to fight for what you believe in when everyone else disagrees with you because they don't even know what you believe in?  

Posted by -Albus

And yes ethnic groups have stood up for themselves in the past, and it is almost always met with oppression. I'm sure you wouldn't know what it is like since I'm guessing you are not a minority, but could you imagine trying to fight for what you believe in when everyone else disagrees with you because they don't even know what you believe in?

I live in a very, very christian community. Everyone I know is christian and I was indoctrinated into a christian school. People ask me when we get into these discussions, "So why do you believe the world started with an explosion? That just sounds stupid." They don't even take the time to research another persons opinion before assuming things about them. I know what you mean.  

Posted by Engel

So if you see a tsunami flooding half a country killing thousands of people or having an earthquake destroying many cities and with that taking many lives- is that our fault?

I had my opinion based on the wars and so on. Such stuff is made by the nature and needs to awake people living not giving a **** about what they have and how lucky they are. After a tsunami you probably completely realize how wonderful your life was, what you had and how lucky you could have been to have a home. All that will be gone after a tsunami and than you realize - you only looked at what you didn't have, not what you had.  

Posted by -Albus

Gravity is only a theory. Sure, it makes sense, but how do we know there is this magical thing called "gravity" that keeps us from floating into space? Have you ever seen this "gravity" under a microscope, or seen pictures of this magical force called "gravity?" No, because it is only a theory, and you can not prove that it exists just like Christians can not prove that god exists.

Take a look at some local churches. Are you telling me that these people that do food drives and go out and help the homeless are not contributing any help? Are they causing problems by feeding the homeless? Yeah, I guess you're right, helping those less fortunate is putting a real damper on the rest of the world.

And yes ethnic groups have stood up for themselves in the past, and it is almost always met with oppression. I'm sure you wouldn't know what it is like since I'm guessing you are not a minority, but could you imagine trying to fight for what you believe in when everyone else disagrees with you because they don't even know what you believe in?

Anyone can carry out good deeds without being religious, giving food to the homeless is minuscule effort on a global scale and the bigger picture. I've yet to see what religion has positively contributed on a worldwide level.

Again you're just showing disregard for anything I'm saying by assuming, once again, something about me personally. I'll share with you that I am half South Korean and "white", I am very much a minority, I have lived places where I was the only minority in my school. I am lucky now to live in a vastly multicultural and mostly open-minded city where no certain one belief is the norm.  

Posted by GodoT

Spoiler

Is there really any way to prove the existence of God? It’s possible that either you believe or you don’t. Two separate paths branch out before each of us; the path of atheism on one hand and the path of God or gods on the other. One path denies accountability to any superior being other than that of nature’s collective consciousness. The other requires obedience and ultimate accountability to the government of a higher power. Atheism teaches that all things including our own existence are the result of chance. Theism (belief in god) ascribes design and order to supernatural intelligence. “Which do I choose?” is not really the most important question. Instead, the really big question is, “How do I decide,” or “How do I determine which one is the truth?” not “truth for me” but actual provable fact.
It’s rather ironic when you think about it, but there really is only one safe choice. If you choose the path of atheism and it turns out your wrong, you’re screwed! But if you choose the path of belief in God and it turns out you’re wrong, you’ve simply hedged your bet. You lose absolutely nothing by being wrong and you gain everything if you end up being right. As clearly rock solid as this logic may be, it still doesn’t answer the question, “What is the truth?”
It’s been said that the existence of a supreme being is self evident. But what does that really mean? I’m afraid I’m probably going to step on some toes here, but consider this. NASA sends a ship into outer space, to the moon, to Mars, wherever they want. Would you say that these spacecraft and their missions are the result of intelligent design and planning or merely the fortunate consequences of natural selection and chance? I realize that I’m being absurd here but I’m proving a point of self evident truth. How does it make any logical sense to attribute the existence and technology of spacecraft, computers, automobiles, and the like to intelligent design by human production, while at the same time pointing to the complex living mechanisms of this planet and asserting they are the result of natural accidental luck? Unlike modern technology, these creatures cannot be reproduced or duplicated in even the most technically scientific laboratory, I’m sorry, but logic and common sense does not tolerate two opposite conclusions to both be reckoned as truth. If intelligent design is responsible for all sophisticated and technical machinery, then there is a God. If all complex machinery organic or mechanical can be attributed to random chance then there is no need for a supreme being. The truth is self evident. The manufacturers label says, “Made by God.”

Callimuc, heres your goodies: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...9235735AAsqya2

Please stop posting crap you googled and some fool has been posting somewhere. Like Rexx said thats probably a god fearing christian trying to get you also into his religion. I'm not an atheist or religious like pimpsy, I make my own decision (+think like fp4 in this case) rather than having to choose one way or listening to crap based on stuff other people have been overdoing

If you choose the path of atheism and it turns out your wrong, you’re screwed! But if you choose the path of belief in God and it turns out you’re wrong, you’ve simply hedged your bet. You lose absolutely nothing by being wrong and you gain everything if you end up being right.

That's the biggest bull****. If you are/were wrong than you are/were wrong. There is no goodie for you if you believed in god even though he doesn't exist than. Make up your own mind or believe in whatever religion you are (in case) rather than quoting bull**** from the internet.  

Posted by Rexx

Anyone can carry out good deeds without being religious, giving food to the homeless is minuscule effort on a global scale and the bigger picture. I've yet to see what religion has positively contributed on a worldwide level.

Again you're just showing disregard for anything I'm saying by assuming, once again, something about me personally. I'll share with you that I am half South Korean and "white", I am very much a minority, I have lived places where I was the only minority in my school. I am lucky now to live in a vastly multicultural and mostly open-minded city where no certain one belief is the norm.

Yes, but you said religion has a negative effect on the world, which is not true. You're right, anyone can carry out good deeds, but you disregard when people carry out good deeds in the name of religion, but seem quick to jump out all the negative deeds people do in the name of religion. Like I've stated before, everything you seem to "know" about Muslims you've heard from the media, which is why you have such a negative view towards Islam.

Yes, I was assuming, I apologize. However, as South Korean do you feel you face the same type of discrimination that a Muslim does? I know there are negative stereotypes associated with being Korean, but you rarely hear those. Most of the stereotypes you hear probably have to do with you being really good at video games, or really good at math. You probably do not get called a terrorist based on the color of your skin, or have to face extra security measures while boarding an airplane because of your name. You say you live in an open minded city now, so why don't you have a more open mind and try to see things from a religious person's point of view before calling them out on their beliefs?