The fact of the matter is, eventually not everyone will pull there weight and what would be the outcome if this was actually implemented? To give Unixmad and Stefan some more thousands off the gralat packs and stuff they would probably put on the server because they want more money?  

I came here expecting something to be directed at the player community. Sounds like a thread for developers only ;'"""(


OT: no point in getting the "best" of the best working together since some may have personal issues with each other. A lot of them come from the PC world, a place where people hold grudges for years.  

If only we could pull together a team of people who aren't working on a server currently..  

Posted by Godoco

The fact of the matter is, eventually not everyone will pull there weight and what would be the outcome if this was actually implemented? To give Unixmad and Stefan some more thousands off the gralat packs and stuff they would probably put on the server because they want more money?

Or, you know, having something else that's fun to play?  

Posted by Shurikangraal

What is possible but would need encouragement:

I think the best thing we could do at the moment is to really press for better tools (as mentioned in the post). A lot of tools used for Graal development (gani, world editor etc.) have become outdated or are missing features or assets that could really improve and speed up development on servers.
Are these tools currently being worked on? (I don't know they may be) but if we wish to grow, our tools need to grow with us.

I think the problem is that ownership doesnt care that much about improving. I agree with those that believe graal has real potential, but it's hard to realize that potential when the owners put very minimal effort into improving their game.

Instead they wait for their players to do their job
Example:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...02&postcount=1

---v
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...6&postcount=13

Posted by Shurikangraal

[B]As stated in the article as well, the Graal community has really separated into two parts. Mobile and PC. (which most likely has to do with the subscription fee for PC) I would really like to see both sides interact more.

I think this was a big issue in the beginning(there was this vibe that the pc community was resentful towards the iphone world), but with a lot of the developers and players from pc migrating to the iphone world it has made things much better between both sides.

I think the only ones that this would apply is to the pc era community. I dont think they have accepted their brothers from the iphone world.

Posted by Shurikangraal

What would be awesome but unlikely:

The article mentions having all of the most talented developers come together to work on a server. (this sounds almost impossible with how things currently are). The only way to accomplish this would be by paying the staff. I think it would be amazing if staff were paid (even minimum wage) to think of ideas and produce a server for all platforms. With multiple dedicated coders things would get done in a timely manner. GFX artist could all agree on a certain style and work to produce graphics to fit those standards. If this was done properly and executed in a fairly timely manner this server would get lots of players (pc and mobile) and definitely could earn back what it took to pay the staff members. Like I said this is just a dream but something I would love to see happen.

What do you think? Are these goals unable to be accomplished with how Graal is ran?

Would it be possible to accomplish them and if so how could it be done?

I think the problem goes back to ownership not caring enough to improve the server. If the owners really wanted they could make two strong developer teams and create 2 servers that put the others to shame. I even think they could accomplish it without paying them.  

a 400-word long outcry that really does nothing more than briefly outline the glaringly obvious
"we need more players, we need more developers, we need more cooperation"
who'd have thunk it  

It almost seems more worth it to "pool together" and jump ship for brighter shores. (Not Graal Reborn, just thought I'd clarify)  

Posted by Motrox

If only we could pull together a team of people who aren't working on a server currently..

I think this is a huge problem ^

A lot of the talented developers out there are going to, for good reason, leave a developed server where they can comfortably work for some inDev server that's concepts are kinda shakey in the first place. Just seems like a huge problem with this is what the actual developers would be comfortable with doing.  

Posted by MattKan

It almost seems more worth it to "pool together" and jump ship for brighter shores. (Not Graal Reborn, just thought I'd clarify)

Sadly it does. I personally believe that the "You pay me to make me money" business model and the subpar game engine and server hardware really kills graal in the end. Perhaps someday graal developers will all get together and collaborate on an external project on engines and platforms that are much more up-to-speed with modern technology , as well as in a manner that allows for compensation for their work. But for now that's just a pipe dream.  

Posted by Lazerlatte

Sadly it does. I personally believe that the "You pay me to make me money" business model and the subpar game engine and server hardware really kills graal in the end. Perhaps someday graal developers will all get together and collaborate on an external project on engines and platforms that are much more up-to-speed with modern technology , as well as in a manner that allows for compensation for their work. But for now that's just a pipe dream.

If players don't take the time to develop with a more limited engine, why is it plausible to believe they'll all magically become techno-wizards when they go to something else?



I know plenty of people who are awesome at what they do within Graal itself, and plenty more who aren't. And if a developer can't achieve much within the constraints they are provided with using this engine, it's unlikely that they'll accomplish much outside of it either.

When it comes to making games, the end product is only as good as the people who have worked on it. No matter how awesome the engine is that you're working with, it will not make up for being a terrible developer. I really wish people would stop acting like other engines are more worthwhile and will always fix the problems they have when a lot of them can't even develop worth a damn in the first place.

People like Fowlplay4, Cbk1994, Mallard, xZirox, xAndrewx and dozens of others have all produced scripts which make development way easier and open a lot of new doors for the community, but yet I still hear people endlessly complaining about a lack of tools. (Probably because those people complaining don't even have enough brain matter to follow step-by-step instructions to install them in the first place.) These guys are brilliant, and they got that way by working hard with the scripting language they were provided with, which is far more powerful than it's given credit for. The language itself is practically Java, for the most part, and if you can't at least start to understand that, god help you when you try to move onto something else.

Sorry, but most developers need to nut up, shut up, and do some real goddamn work before they can ever claim to have pushed the game to its limits. Very few have ever done so, and they are always people who recognize the importance of building things up instead of abandoning them at the first sign of difficulty.  

People tend to severely underestimate the amount of work that needs to actually go into making a full-fledged stand-alone game.  

Posted by Draenin

Sorry, but most developers need to nut up, shut up, and do some real goddamn work before they can ever claim to have pushed the game to its limits.

That's an unfair jab. Most of the people complaining aren't developers. The developers are the ones defending the current Graal.  

This thread makes me feel as if in a few years this game will die out because of lack of attention from Stefan and Unix.  

Posted by iHot

This thread makes me feel as if in a few years this game will die out because of lack of attention from Stefan and Unix.

I feel like you will die out from lack of attention. jk ilu

Posted by Blah64

That's an unfair jab. Most of the people complaining aren't developers. The developers are the ones defending the current Graal.

If they're not developers, why are they complaining about tools and engine limitations if they don't bother to work with it? That makes no sense.

I am talking specifically about newer or moderately skilled developers who just throw their hands up in the air in frustration and go, "Bah! I can't get what I want done on this game, so I'll go to a different one or start one from scratch!" As Dusty said, they often underestimate how much work is often involved with doing that.  

Just because you want better tools does not make you any less of a developer. Sure it may be more difficult or take longer to finish something with the current tools we have. However i don't think it is wrong to want (realistic technology) that will in the end improve the speed and quality of your development.