Ban Evidence - 2

GOAT · 01-14-2016

Posted by Albie

Agreed, if they have evidence to look over to see if your ban should be overturned why not let us see it if they've looked at it 'after further review'

Good point, but unfortunately Graal is a game that is owned by an individual that doesn't really care about player bans or upholding their volunteers to high standards. I'm sure there's some good ones out there that do their job properly, but there are some that are straight up douchebags. Some of those douches even become PWA's, no names. You should try to re-submit the ticket.

Colin · 01-14-2016

Now, I haven't been an admin on Classic but I was on Delteria and I am pretty sure most of the procedures for banning and warnings work in a similar manner.

We always had evidence to justify banning a player, and because Delteria was a PC server we mainly had to deal with people who would hack/cheat. We always had evidence that they did what they did, even for things like harassment and inappropriate behavior what they said/did was logged and accessible.

If you get banned for hacking and you truly did not do it and there was a lack of evidence to prove it then it gets overturned, which has happened before on almost every server. The only other scenario here is that there is evidence to prove it so it is not getting overturned, if this is the case you don't need evidence because you know what you did.

Yog · 01-14-2016

Posted by Thallen

Apparently I've been unbanned more times than I've been banned (explain how that's possible)

It's not.

Zetectic · 01-14-2016

looks like graalians need to get themselves a blackbox.

CM · 01-14-2016

Posted by Striken

Yes, assure him of the obvious which I'm sure he's well aware of lol. I don't see why evidence shouldn't be provided anyways, league of legends provides evidence when a player is banned for toxic behaviour iirc.

If a player is justly banned then they should know what they did, if they were banned falsely then the ban will be overturned. So I don't see the need for evidence when a player is banned.

Bryan* · 01-14-2016

Don't pay mind to the robot above. It's programmed with an automated message of the usual responses. It sometimes malfunctions and doesn't know anything.

Yog · 01-14-2016

Posted by Bryan*

Don't pay mind to the robot above. It's programmed with an automated message of the usual responses. It sometimes malfunctions and doesn't know anything.

*beep beep*

-INTERPRETING MESSAGE-

-MESSAGE INTERPERETED-

MEANING:

Spoiler

-THANKS FOR USING THE GP BOT VERSION 4.0-

Bryan* · 01-14-2016

@Yog, I like salt on my fries thanks for displaying that.

Majority of games supply evidence whether it's small or on a large scale of an offense. I'd still want the report system that Era uses implemented to Classic. As towards Toonslab, it wouldn't hurt to provide something to the concerned player with details to ease their dissatisfaction.

Aguzo · 01-14-2016

Posted by CM

Now dis here message is fo dat eazy bryan fabreezy. If a playa gon get banned, then dey no wat dey did and dey did do wat dey did knowin dat dey gon get wat's comin for doin what dey did. If dey was banned unjustifitedly, then dey can get exonerated. So I don know what da problem is? You wana get the boot too? Why ya'll askin, so many questions? The less you know the better, ya feel me?

Posted by Bryan*

Don't pay mind to the robot above. It's programmed with an automated message of the usual responses. It sometimes malfunctions and doesn't know anything.

Is that better?

Striken · 01-14-2016

Posted by Aguzo

Is that better?

You should realize by now your sense of humor lacks the humor part.

Aguzo · 01-14-2016

Posted by Striken

You should realize by now your sense of humor lacks the humor part.

I actually got a bunch of rep for both of those posts

Maybe you just lack the stop bit... part. So what if he used a copy paste? How does that effect you?

If albie didn't do anything bad, then all he has to do is file a ticket. CM person is just explaining that. Maybe he used a copy paste (if he did), because there might be rules allowing only pre-written responses towards players complaining about a ban. Calling someone a robot or whatever is pretty ignorant. It might just be the way they are told to handle these types of situations.

Brick · 01-14-2016

Some bans are very easy to provide evidence for. Inappropriate names, statuses, pm histories, etc. are able to be logged. When it comes to things like that, staff almost always have evidence to back it up. However, when it comes to situations like hacking, purposefully blocking paths, etc. the staff members have no way of logging what they player is doing (at least they didn't when I was staff). The GP use their best judgement and take action that way. Usually they will provide a small explanation of what was happening and why the player deserved the ban in the account log. When players appeal bans, the person in charge of appeals will look through the player's log and see what the issue was. More times than not the person in charge of appeals will believe the GP over the player, so if a reason for the ban was given and it sounds believable then the player will most likely remain banned.

deadowl · 01-14-2016

I'm going to guess that they would never guarantee a reason due to legal liability issues. It would be extremely difficult to be able to pay enough GPs, on a professional level, to be on 24/7. When you're working with volunteers, you can't guarantee their behavior because there is very little realized risk to being an asshole at that point in most peoples' lives (~14yo), and especially because volunteers, particularly minors, don't depend on a paycheck. Therefore, you're going to get a significant amount of false positives, and you can't provide any reason for anyone to place fault on you because that creates a potential argument for legal liability. I imagine it would cost more money than otherwise to officially support the requirement of providing evidence of volunteer staff members.

Red · 01-14-2016

Posted by CM

There's no need for evidence to be provided

https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.carthrottle.com/workspace/uploads/comments/2015/05/triple_facepalm-554e2329b2915.jpg (Unsupported image host)

That's like going to the police station saying albie killed his mother when his mother is clearly fine and arresting him without any evidence .

Nabu Lapse · 01-14-2016

Posted by OG

https://s3.amazonaws.com/static.carthrottle.com/workspace/uploads/comments/2015/05/triple_facepalm-554e2329b2915.jpg (Unsupported image host)

That's like going to the police station saying albie killed his mother when his mother is clearly fine and arresting him without any evidence .

inb4 the "this isn't real life" speech

01-14-2016	17
Colin Registered User Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 3,204	Now, I haven't been an admin on Classic but I was on Delteria and I am pretty sure most of the procedures for banning and warnings work in a similar manner. We always had evidence to justify banning a player, and because Delteria was a PC server we mainly had to deal with people who would hack/cheat. We always had evidence that they did what they did, even for things like harassment and inappropriate behavior what they said/did was logged and accessible. If you get banned for hacking and you truly did not do it and there was a lack of evidence to prove it then it gets overturned, which has happened before on almost every server. The only other scenario here is that there is evidence to prove it so it is not getting overturned, if this is the case you don't need evidence because you know what you did.

01-14-2016	19
Zetectic Bloodvayne Join Date: Nov 2012 Posts: 4,087	looks like graalians need to get themselves a blackbox.

01-14-2016	21
Bryan* Verified ✔️ Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: M.I.A Posts: 3,408	Don't pay mind to the robot above. It's programmed with an automated message of the usual responses. It sometimes malfunctions and doesn't know anything.

01-14-2016	27
Brick Strange Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: Washington Posts: 559	Some bans are very easy to provide evidence for. Inappropriate names, statuses, pm histories, etc. are able to be logged. When it comes to things like that, staff almost always have evidence to back it up. However, when it comes to situations like hacking, purposefully blocking paths, etc. the staff members have no way of logging what they player is doing (at least they didn't when I was staff). The GP use their best judgement and take action that way. Usually they will provide a small explanation of what was happening and why the player deserved the ban in the account log. When players appeal bans, the person in charge of appeals will look through the player's log and see what the issue was. More times than not the person in charge of appeals will believe the GP over the player, so if a reason for the ban was given and it sounds believable then the player will most likely remain banned.

01-14-2016	28
deadowl Registered User Join Date: Jul 2014 Posts: 783	I'm going to guess that they would never guarantee a reason due to legal liability issues. It would be extremely difficult to be able to pay enough GPs, on a professional level, to be on 24/7. When you're working with volunteers, you can't guarantee their behavior because there is very little realized risk to being an asshole at that point in most peoples' lives (~14yo), and especially because volunteers, particularly minors, don't depend on a paycheck. Therefore, you're going to get a significant amount of false positives, and you can't provide any reason for anyone to place fault on you because that creates a potential argument for legal liability. I imagine it would cost more money than otherwise to officially support the requirement of providing evidence of volunteer staff members.