Posted by Thallen

Pointing out the obvious corruption of their campaign doesn't really reflect taking sides, but I think Megyn Kelly is pretty neutral and if she was put to it then she'd be voting for Clinton I'm pretty sure

Also, response to the PV video:

Basically "it's fake"
How? It's the two DNC operatives in the video, the two people were fired (or resigned, whatever). What's fake?

"I urge extreme caution in drawing conclusions about anyone's character based on a few hours of having looked at this video."
That's the response to video evidence. Meanwhile, we're crucifying Donald Trump and he's losing numbers in a general election over calling a fat girl fat. Holy ****.

Media is biased. thats why trump is taking a lot of hits and hillary is covered up

Posted by tzp

I'm voting for Clinton. Not that my vote matters. But if you'd like to hear why, it's because in my strict opinion, she would run the country better than Trump.

Corruption is a KNOWN thing in the Government. Whatever perspective you look at it, most "corruption" is for the benefit of the US. How do I know? Because I guarantee I'm the only one on Graal that has ever worked with or dealt with foreign and domestic relations and classifieds in support of the US Government. During my service, Hillary has traveled and visited over 40 countries to build diplomatic relations with as the Secretary of State. "Hillary's corrupt, oooo" Seriously. Our intel agencies, our military, all have aggressive deplorable methods used in the defense of our nation. And I should add that EVERY country does the same as well.

So, basically ruining a country is most beneficial for our country? Correct me if im wrong on the previous sentence lol. So, what do u exactly mean?  

Posted by Thallen

nice @ trying to rationalize deleting thousands of documents that incriminate you for being irresponsible and lazy, accepting money (in exchange for favors) from countries that publicly stone women and gays, and bribing poor people into inciting violence at public events for the other side of the ticket

none of that has to do with "intel"

I had a hard time distinguishing how those things you pointed out, done equivalently by Trump in multiple businesses he had, admonishes Hillary's campaign?

Oh I'm sure your information is quite reliable though.

I've noticed absolute polarized positions when it comes to our Presidential debate. You're either 100% with Trump or 100% with Hillary, and all actions done by one party can be completely rectified by the actions of the other.

Posted by DoubleliftGraal

So, basically ruining a country is most beneficial for our country? Correct me if im wrong on the previous sentence lol. So, what do u exactly mean?

Hm? No, what I'm saying is that the corruption in our government already EXISTS. And if you haven't at all been affected by it, who is to say that corruption is automatically deemed negative? It's all a matter of perspective. Corruption is such a subjective opinion. Which is why laws take YEARS to develop, trying to draw a thin line between right and wrong on a mountain of gray areas and morals.

I KNOW Hillary is corrupt. But at least I know how, and why (with respect to the US Government). She has already served as the U.S. Secretary of State, which by the way, is a common position usually taken up on before stepping towards Presidency.

I know Trump is also corrupt, but I have NO idea of what will become. What "corruption" is he specifically going to purge? He funds his own campaign? Hah. Loans. He is a businessman, he's already got invested partnerships behind the scenes, from previous business ventures, and is already going to give his "friends" special treatment. Is that what you call uncorrupted? He already sounds like all our current politicians.

Well, thank god that knight in shining armor is coming to save our instable and crumbling government with his "change" that he so heavily advertises on.



Ahhhh. I've fallen into the quicksand of political discussion. Disregard whatever I said.

Trump 2016.  

Posted by tzp

Hm? No, what I'm saying is that the corruption in our government already EXISTS. And if you haven't at all been affected by it, who is to say that corruption is automatically deemed negative? It's all a matter of perspective. Corruption is such a subjective opinion. Which is why laws take YEARS to develop, trying to draw a thin line between right and wrong on a mountain of gray areas and morals.

I KNOW Hillary is corrupt. But at least I know how, and why (with respect to the US Government). She has already served as the U.S. Secretary of State, which by the way, is a common position usually taken up on before stepping towards Presidency.

I know Trump is also corrupt, but I have NO idea of what will become. What "corruption" is he specifically going to purge? He funds his own campaign? Hah. Loans. He is a businessman, he's already got invested partnerships behind the scenes, from previous business ventures, and is already going to give his "friends" special treatment. Is that what you call uncorrupted? He already sounds like all our current politicians.

Well, thank god that knight in shining armor is coming to save our instable and crumbling government with his "change" that he so heavily advertises on.



Ahhhh. I've fallen into the quicksand of political discussion. Disregard whatever I said.

Trump 2016.

Corruption exists already, most likely true in the government. But let's take a look. Obama(both Barack and Michelle) strongly support Hillary Clinton's Clinton/Kaine campaign. And you're saying corruption in government exists. If so, Obama is part of the corruption that's supporting Clinton, so Clinton does have corruption. But nothing is supporting Trump, hence, no one can say he is corrupt OR not corrupt. Aside from that, Trump is a rich billionaire and he can fund his own campaign. HIS OWN NET WORTH is 3.7 billion US dollars. And evidently he has not spent a lot of money on trying to advertise his campaign. He has nothing to gain from the presidency(in terms of monetary benefits) because he's wealthy enough to basically live his own life and eat his 500 dollar dinner everyday. But he chooses not to live such an extravagant life and wants to help America great again, which is why I find him to be a good man.

Hillary CLinton can make money ONLY by being a politician, she will do anything to make money. And "anything" could be good or bad.

This is why i think trump may be a better candidate than Clinton but others may think differently

dang that's a lot i wrote lol  

Posted by DoubleliftGraal

Corruption exists already, most likely true in the government. But let's take a look. Obama(both Barack and Michelle) strongly support Hillary Clinton's Clinton/Kaine campaign. And you're saying corruption in government exists. If so, Obama is part of the corruption that's supporting Clinton, so Clinton does have corruption. But nothing is supporting Trump, hence, no one can say he is corrupt OR not corrupt. Aside from that, Trump is a rich billionaire and he can fund his own campaign. HIS OWN NET WORTH is 3.7 billion US dollars. And evidently he has not spent a lot of money on trying to advertise his campaign. He has nothing to gain from the presidency(in terms of monetary benefits) because he's wealthy enough to basically live his own life and eat his 500 dollar dinner everyday. But he chooses not to live such an extravagant life and wants to help America great again, which is why I find him to be a good man.

Hillary CLinton can make money ONLY by being a politician, she will do anything to make money. And "anything" could be good or bad.

This is why i think trump may be a better candidate than Clinton but others may think differently

dang that's a lot i wrote lol

If Trump really wanted to make the country better wouldn't he pay his taxes like most moral people? Wouldn't he get his steel legally from the US? Wouldn't he source employment from the US? Wouldn't he produce more of his stuff in the US?

You can say he's just "being smart" and exploiting loopholes but it's not really, anyone with money can do it. If he really wanted to make the country great again then why hasn't he been doing his part for the past 30 years?  

Posted by DoubleliftGraal

Corruption exists already, most likely true in the government. But let's take a look. Obama(both Barack and Michelle) strongly support Hillary Clinton's Clinton/Kaine campaign. And you're saying corruption in government exists. If so, Obama is part of the corruption that's supporting Clinton, so Clinton does have corruption. But nothing is supporting Trump, hence, no one can say he is corrupt OR not corrupt. Aside from that, Trump is a rich billionaire and he can fund his own campaign. HIS OWN NET WORTH is 3.7 billion US dollars. And evidently he has not spent a lot of money on trying to advertise his campaign. He has nothing to gain from the presidency(in terms of monetary benefits) because he's wealthy enough to basically live his own life and eat his 500 dollar dinner everyday. But he chooses not to live such an extravagant life and wants to help America great again, which is why I find him to be a good man.

Hillary CLinton can make money ONLY by being a politician, she will do anything to make money. And "anything" could be good or bad.

This is why i think trump may be a better candidate than Clinton but others may think differently

dang that's a lot i wrote lol

There are a lot of people supporting Trump. Mainly investors and business partners. His NET worth of 3.7 billion doesn't mean he has 3.7 billion cash to spend, it means his investments, assets (frozen and liquid), partnerships, and joint-ownership are all included. He spent probably several millions of his own cash, but anymore than that and it's definitely not his own money but money from partnered assets and such. He is a business man, and NO business man has a business without partners.

Anyway, as for a possible motive as to why he's doing it. I do hope he's a good Samaritan and just wants to make America better. But being a President along with any other Political position can easily become a BUSINESS benefit. As such:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...VyV_story.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sNA0-GBuunc

Anyway, like i said, Trump 2016. I just wanted to further expand on your opinion with my own. Knowing Trump's kindness and compassion for the country by paying taxes like any normal citizen, I assume becoming President he will find a way to selflessly devote himself to making the country a better place for everyone.  

The thing is if he gets elected while he still owns his companies they get put into a trust-hold sort of thing where someone actively maintains it while he does presidency work meaning he still owns them but doesn't fully control them, this results in him earning less money than he would if he just didn't become president and continued to focus on his own businesses, also, he would have to pay taxes (which I'm sure he has been the past few years).

Edit: Seems like while that's a law, it doesn't apply to the president, but still there will definitely be pressure for him to hand them over and he has talked about handing management over to family/friends.

I believe he wants to make America better because if you see any of his videos from years ago he's clearly against being a politician unless he feels America really needs help, if you look into why he wants to reduce tax on the rich his theory actually makes sense.

The problem is being wealthy everyone will always just assume he's going to do the shadiest things possible to benefit him which is a weak argument for being against him because Clinton is the same way.

From an outside view (I'm Canadian) a lot of what I see in this election is "I'm voting X because X and Y are both bad but Y is worse" it sucks it's come to just having to settle with who you think is the lesser evil candidate.

And about the whole him not believing in climate change, neither did our PM we had for years, it isn't going to ruin the country and he's still going to focus on fixing the environment because it's an overall boost to the economy.  

Posted by Colin

The thing is if he gets elected while he still owns his companies they get put into a trust-hold sort of thing where someone actively maintains it while he does presidency work meaning he still owns them but doesn't fully control them, this results in him earning less money than he would if he just didn't become president and continued to focus on his own businesses.

I believe he wants to make America better because if you see any of his videos from years ago he's clearly against being a politician unless he feels America really needs help, if you look into why he wants to reduce tax on the rich his theory actually makes sense.

The problem is being wealthy everyone will always just assume he's going to do the shadiest things possible to benefit him which is a weak argument for being against him because Clinton is the same way.

From an outside view (I'm Canadian) a lot of what I see in this election is "I'm voting X because X and Y are both bad but Y is worse" it sucks it's come to just having to settle with who you think is the lesser evil candidate.

And about the whole him not believing in climate change, neither did our PM we had for years, it isn't going to ruin the country and he's still going to focus on fixing the environment because it's an overall boost to the economy.

Trump will still be the owner. Instead of thinking of his value in terms of cash, think about it in terms of assets. As President, he will acquire a much broader range of actions available to him that can directly benefit his assets and personal agendas. 4 Years as President, and once you're done, he can return to an empire. Not to mention, whoever partners he works with, domestic or foreign, will also directly benefit due to association.

His theory on reducing taxes for the rich is basic economic principals, allowing more freedom for free-market development rather than government-regulated. While you can see this from a logical non-biased standpoint, I'm more inclined to see this as allowing the already rich elite (which he is a part of) to benefit.

I believe in his shady acts because of History. His words of what he "will do" have no weight against what he "has done". Hasn't paid massive amounts of taxes, leveraged his wealth against smaller business associates out of their commission (eventually running them out of business), marketed and sold various products and claimed bankruptcy afterwards, etc.

Hillary has done terrible stuff too though, don't get me wrong. But as Secretary of State for a long time, she held the 3rd highest position in all of U.S. Government aside from POTUS and VPOTUS. It's safe to say that history on her side, which already shows WHAT she is like as a leader of our government, hasn't shown damage to others but rather dealings for the benefit of the US. Even these current e-mail allegations have yet to be proven/evidenced as to what (if any) kind of damage resulted.

This isn't a gradual process of his habits and actions changing. We're talking about a man who was one day an aggressive self-preservation minded billionaire, to the next, a champion for the poor-middle class that has just declared running for Presidency.

But yeah, they both suck. I wanted to vote for Vermin Supreme.  

Posted by Vendetta

If Trump really wanted to make the country better wouldn't he pay his taxes like most moral people? Wouldn't he get his steel legally from the US? Wouldn't he source employment from the US? Wouldn't he produce more of his stuff in the US?

You can say he's just "being smart" and exploiting loopholes but it's not really, anyone with money can do it. If he really wanted to make the country great again then why hasn't he been doing his part for the past 30 years?

Then my question is why hasnt hillary clinton done anything for the last 30 years of her political life? In my opinion, she has not done much to improve the US in a big way. Specifically, an example would be that she wanted to build a wall to prevent unauthorized immigrants but failed to do so. Trump MAY have not paid taxes, which are not yet proven. Hillary Clinton has done far worse, which is why Trump calls Clinton "corrupt". Again, this is my own opinion, so correct me if im wrong  

Posted by DoubleliftGraal

Then my question is why hasnt hillary clinton done anything for the last 30 years of her political life? In my opinion, she has not done much to improve the US in a big way. Specifically, an example would be that she wanted to build a wall to prevent unauthorized immigrants but failed to do so. Trump MAY have not paid taxes, which are not yet proven. Hillary Clinton has done far worse, which is why Trump calls Clinton "corrupt". Again, this is my own opinion, so correct me if im wrong

He stated it himself in the first two debates that he avoided paying income taxes.  

nearly everyone I read about Trump's tax plan has it increasing the debt by 5 Trillion(minimum). From what I've read and seen his plan to combat this is with "tremendous growth", assuming he doesn't cut spending elsewhere. Is it just me or is creating a tax plan for an optimal growth scenario a bad idea? Economy is a fickle thing, from my perspective you should be creating a tax plan for now instead of for a perfect scenario.

Unless he truly believes that can create that kind of growth with 100% certainty, but I doubt that.  

Posted by DoubleliftGraal

Then my question is why hasnt hillary clinton done anything for the last 30 years of her political life? In my opinion, she has not done much to improve the US in a big way. Specifically, an example would be that she wanted to build a wall to prevent unauthorized immigrants but failed to do so. Trump MAY have not paid taxes, which are not yet proven. Hillary Clinton has done far worse, which is why Trump calls Clinton "corrupt". Again, this is my own opinion, so correct me if im wrong

I'm not going to argue that Hillary is a good person, because I truly don't think she is.

This is just a quote from Hillary during the debate, I don't think she's done a whole lot of good but she's definitely done more than Trump has.

You know, back in the 1970s, I worked for the Children's Defense Fund. And I was taking on discrimination against African-American kids in schools. He was getting sued by the Justice Department for racial discrimination in his apartment buildings.

In the 1980s, I was working to reform the schools in Arkansas. He was borrowing $14 million from his father to start his businesses. In the 1990s, I went to Beijing and I said women's rights are human rights. He insulted a former Miss Universe, Alicia Machado, called her an eating machine.

And on the day when I was in the Situation Room, monitoring the raid that brought Osama bin Laden to justice, he was hosting the "Celebrity Apprentice."

As for the wall I don't believe she had the power to do it. She voted for a barrier (not a 50ft wall like Trump suggests), she personally didn't have the sole power to put it in place though.

Posted by Areo

nearly everyone I read about Trump's tax plan has it increasing the debt by 5 Trillion(minimum). From what I've read and seen his plan to combat this is with "tremendous growth", assuming he doesn't cut spending elsewhere. Is it just me or is creating a tax plan for an optimal growth scenario a bad idea? Economy is a fickle thing, from my perspective you should be creating a tax plan for now instead of for a perfect scenario.

Unless he truly believes that can create that kind of growth with 100% certainty, but I doubt that.

Even in a perfect world I don't see any way his plan can create the amount of growth and reduce the debt by the amount that he's said, people just hear him say that it'll grow the economy and believe it. I can't see Hillary's doing much either, it will 100% do less damage though.  

Posted by Vendetta

I'm not going to argue that Hillary is a good person, because I truly don't think she is.

This is just a quote from Hillary during the debate, I don't think she's done a whole lot of good but she's definitely done more than Trump has.



As for the wall I don't believe she had the power to do it. She voted for a barrier (not a 50ft wall like Trump suggests), she personally didn't have the sole power to put it in place though.

So who would you vote for president lmao  

Posted by DoubleliftGraal

So who would you vote for president lmao

I would vote someone like Jill Stein because I dislike both candidates but I think it would be more important to keep Trump out so probably Hillary.

I'm from the UK and can't vote anyway so my opinion doesn't really matter. You know your country better than me, vote for who you think would benefit it the most.  

not sure if I'm late but Trump didn't do anything illegal by not paying federal income taxes. He just used one of the many loopholes available in the tax code that your representatives had set at the time.  

Posted by PigParty

not sure if I'm late but Trump didn't do anything illegal by not paying federal income taxes. He just used one of the many loopholes available in the tax code that your representatives had set at the time.

Still kind of a **** move nonetheless.