Nobody in this thread believes you use a vpn, people simply are saying things like that when they don't understand something. they actually are bothered with your delay and THEN combined it with a vpn theory. you really are wasting your time because those people, which by the way often are horrible people but sometimes also good people, just like to construct enemies to keep the game exciting for themselves. always go to the roots of an issue.

The delay problem will not be fixed by the responsible institutions, even though I created a very good scheme of how a functioning limit for lag and delay would look like. That is why the only way spar can be saved from delay is if all non-heavily-delaying sparrers make an agreement to not collaborate with heavy delayers. since that too is not going to happen - recruiting heavy delayers simply is too seductive - all you can do is to make it better yourself by refusing to work together with delayers yourself, and part of that obviously is that you don't spar yourself if you are a source of heavy delay. THAT puts you in a higher sphere towards those people, unlike attempting to obtain a pointless approval from this community  

Posted by Eugeen

Delay isn't even really the issue imo.
The real issue is the fact that the game is made in such a way that it allows people to gain an advantage in basically anything due to important game elements being done clientsided.

You can't really expect graal to run everything through a server though since there are lag issues already and they'd probably have to rewrite most of the game in the first place in order to achieve fair competitive play.
Doubt Unixmad would be willing to invest money into things like this either since if it isn't "broken" why fix it.

This issue will never be solved and putting in extra measurements just hurts the game because it could lose out on potential players.

Kinda agree tbh,

Posted by Droon

Nobody in this thread believes you use a vpn, people simply are saying things like that when they don't understand something. they actually are bothered with your delay and THEN combined it with a vpn theory. you really are wasting your time because those people, which by the way often are horrible people but sometimes also good people, just like to construct enemies to keep the game exciting for themselves. always go to the roots of an issue.

The delay problem will not be fixed by the responsible institutions, even though I created a very good scheme of how a functioning limit for lag and delay would look like. That is why the only way spar can be saved from delay is if all non-heavily-delaying sparrers make an agreement to not collaborate with heavy delayers. since that too is not going to happen - recruiting heavy delayers simply is too seductive - all you can do is to make it better yourself by refusing to work together with delayers yourself, and part of that obviously is that you don't spar yourself if you are a source of heavy delay. THAT puts you in a higher sphere towards those people, unlike attempting to obtain a pointless approval from this community

TBH, The problem with the claim of Delays shouldn't cooperate with other delayers, problem of that is though is. Delayers actually don't know who is delaying. To us delayers, Everyone delays to our eyes because we can't tell who is and who isn't. And it's harder for non delayers because well. Most people delay anymore in Spar, But non delayers can easily beat a delayer if they simply understand what delay really is, Some people think delayers actually see themselves get hit. When we don't.

And trust me. A crap ton of people think I VPN. Despite how many times I proved them wrong. Take clandestine for example website  

If you take stuff like that seriously then frankly that's an issue for itself, all I am doing is encouraging you to look at the things from above. the question vpn or not is not existant. delay is delay, no matter if it's 'natural' or forced.
you're either against delay which means you refuse to work with heavy delayers (no matter what causes that delay) or you hold the position that delay is no problem in general because skill and delay are two separate things. those two attitudes are consequent because they are logical, meanwhile the definition of hypocrisy is to accept natural delayers while judging vpners for ruining spar.
delay is delay and delay is a problem, for the quality of a spar it doesn't matter under which circumstances the delay occurs.

everybody who collaborates with delayers instead of clearly opposing them makes a contribution to the downfall of quality spar, and it's very entertaining that often those are the same people who then complain about Graal getting worse  

Posted by Droon

If you take stuff like that seriously then frankly that's an issue for itself, all I am doing is encouraging you to look at the things from above. the question vpn or not is not existant. delay is delay, no matter if it's 'natural' or forced.
you're either against delay which means you refuse to work with heavy delayers (no matter what causes that delay) or you hold the position that delay is no problem in general because skill and delay are two separate things. those two attitudes are consequent because they are logical, meanwhile the definition of hypocrisy is to accept natural delayers while judging vpners for ruining spar.
delay is delay and delay is a problem, for the quality of a spar it doesn't matter under which circumstances the delay occurs.

everybody who collaborates with delayers instead of clearly opposing them makes a contribution to the downfall of quality spar, and it's very entertaining that often those are the same people who then complain about Graal getting worse

To be fully honest, I don't think you can just not collaborate with Delayers, because they will be there it's not like you can just avoid sparring them it's gonna happen one way or another. Especially when literally anyone can get delay. American or not. Plus with new people every day, Top it off with the fact there is infact people who seek to spar Delayers to improve their ability to spar them. And there is people like me who will love to spar whoever, Delay or not, I'd even love to spar a speed hacker or a God Mod person, I'd just love to spar them to see how well I could do.

And I'd also argue on if delay itself really ruins a spar, I feel truly it is more the misunderstood nature of delay ruins it. While people may say it makes fighting unfair, Those who say that usually don't understand what they are doing actually or understand how to beat a delayed properly, For instance if I didn't delay, and had knowledge on how delay works like I do now. I could easily kill 2 Delayers at bare minimum just because I'd understand the situation,But those who think that Delayers actually can see themselves get hit
..well not so much.

Infact in reality the more a delayed person delays, The easier they are to kill.Take drew for example delayed way more than I even do now, If not 3X and a bit more. All you'd have to do is simply do one thing. Just avoid getting close to his character and attack way ahead where he is going. for instance if you did a C style infront of him and he does it back, you could go up when he goes down and hit sword a bit more than run when he goes back up and you'd get him every time.

That's why I'd argue it isn't the delay itself being the problem for spars, It's more the misunderstood nature and lack of understanding how to fight it. That's why those who seek out to learn how to fight it end up being successful on bringing down delayers.  

The moment you are busy figuring out the exact hitpoint of your opponent, you don't have the chance to spar the way you'd like to spar, as simple as that.

For the last time, it doesn't matter that 'its not their fault' and 'they like to spar'. if you want to protect spar, you have to oppose those people instead of saying 'ah well yes delay is sort of negative but I like challenges of that nature'. Delay is NOT a challenge, it is a PROBLEM. and of course everybody needs to learn how to fight delayers, but that does NOT mean delay is some sort of spar strategy or technique. you are doing appeasment by calling a problem a challenge which puts you on one level with the people who glorify hackers because 'at least they are entertaining'

and again, that goes @ all other players too, most of them simply already are stuck in their mental jail for so long that even I cannot save them  

Posted by Droon

The moment you are busy figuring out the exact hitpoint of your opponent, you don't have the chance to spar the way you'd like to spar, as simple as that.

For the last time, it doesn't matter that 'its not their fault' and 'they like to spar'. if you want to protect spar, you have to oppose those people instead of saying 'ah well yes delay is sort of negative but I like challenges of that nature'. Delay is NOT a challenge, it is a PROBLEM. and of course everybody needs to learn how to fight delayers, but that does NOT mean delay is some sort of spar strategy or technique. you are doing appeasment by calling a problem a challenge which puts you on one level with the people who glorify hackers because 'at least they are entertaining'

and again, that goes @ all other players too, most of them simply already are stuck in their mental jail for so long that even I cannot save them

Well to figure out their hitbox just stay evasive, attack farther away and get closer and closer till you find the distance, that's how you would go about it with the highest win chance, since they cannot play offensive well. unless you wanna be super defensive and fight them that way. Which usually doesn't pan out too well.

I also really don't understand your concept of opposing them, Like if they enjoy sparring, What else do you expect them to do? They obviously would spar. With or without anyone's liking, Plus in graal now there is equally or even possibly more delayers than there is actual non delayers.

Plus I don't think you fully understand what I mean by delayers being a challenge, There is people who spar for their spar score, and there is people who spar to become better at beating people regardless of the situation. I've had people come and ask to spar me despite my delay with them ususally fully aware of my delay. People who aim to improve aim for challenges that they aren't used to, personally I'd love to spar anyone, Even speed hackers, I'd even love to spar 2 people at the same time if it was possible.( Not including those fun glitches that allow 3 people in a spar since they both don't aim for me sadly).

Regardless though, You can't just "Oppose" and ignore delayers, they will be their regardless, Infact if anything you'd just drive our non delayers because there is so many delayers anymore that they'd probably stay because spar is something they enjoy, and people still would go to them to spar anyway, natural delay or not  

"God Droon vs. Rusix the Eternal" show will continue tonight at 9PM EST, only in Comedy Central  

haha  

Posted by Zetectic

"God Droon vs. Rusix the Eternal" show will continue tonight at 9PM EST, only in Comedy Central

LMAO, good one  

any sort of reply would be a repetition from my side. keep mixing your naiv benevolence with this pseudo-analytic attitude, you're simply not a deep thinker. sorry for wasting my and your time  

Well, So much for our 9 PM EST talk about delay on Comedy Central.