Posted by Thallen

The word "unfair" is not an opinion word.

Absolutely. This thesis is key in a thread such as this, where personal opinion appears to provide a person with sufficient evidence to convince another.

This thread is so similar to the American government right now....  

Posted by Thallen

You seem to be responding more sensibly than GOAT and the others, so let me try to juice more answers out of you:
Do you agree that it is fair for any player to be able to decide what device they want to spar on rather than being forced to select one?
.

Lol wow you are sofa king read tar ed
No one is arguing about what device people should play on, the argument is basically pc have the advantage when it comes to speed/performance. Like i already told you i suck with pc, u shouldnt be affected skill wise in a device so lets have that match and then you can tell me i won because u were on a device and i was on a pc.  

I tell Person A, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a gun.

I tell Person B, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a knife.

Person A and Person B fight. Person A shoots Person B in the head before he can even get within distance to stab him.

Following the logic of a huge portion of this thread, you would claim that the fight was unfair. But can you explain how it was unfair when both were given the exact same choice?

Person B chose the knife. Does this elementary analogy do it for you? Can you now see why I think some of you are just flat out whiners and idiots for choosing to use the iDevice when you claim that the PC is obviously better?  

Posted by GOAT

Lol wow you are sofa king read tar ed
No one is arguing about what device people should play on, the argument is basically pc have the advantage when it comes to speed/performance. Like i already told you i suck with pc, u shouldnt be affected skill wise in a device so lets have that match and then you can tell me i won because u were on a device and i was on a pc.

lol  

You never cease to amaze me, GOAT. I am truly stunned and in awe, so much that I can't even bring myself to quote your last post. You are absolutely dominating me with pure, eyes-closed stupidity right now. You're facetanking every logical thing I say and countering it with, "HAHAHAHA, I'M WAYYY TOO STUPID TO EVEN WANT TO CONSIDER THAT." You are an insanely skilled individual in this regard.

I am begging you to be smarter and digest my posts. I am desperately pleading for you to grasp these concepts, but I am slowly giving up. A few more autistic outbursts from you, and you will have won. I will have to admit defeat.  

Posted by Thallen

Great. Now that you've shared your thoughts on which device is the best to spar on, understand the the majority of this thread has nothing to do with that.

This thread is primarily a discussion of iDevice players claiming that sparring from the PC is "unfair." Since you've chosen to go down this route, I'll do the same:


The word "unfair" is not an opinion word. Please realize that before we progress in this one-on-one conversation. I can have the "opinion" that something is unfair, but fact and extremely basic logic can prove that it is most definitely fair, completely invalidating my "opinion" and causing me to look like an idiot. It's almost like trying to say, "It's my opinion that apples are the color orange." Maybe to your eyes they may look that way because you're misinterpreting the color or you just don't know what you're talking about, but trust me, we can prove that the apple is red.

Graal supports multiple devices for any and every user. It is a constant. It is the same for everyone. That is the very definition of fair.

You seem to be responding more sensibly than GOAT and the others, so let me try to juice more answers out of you:
Do you agree that it is fair for any player to be able to decide what device they want to spar on rather than being forced to select one?

If you answered yes, congratulations! You've just agreed with every single part of my argument. If you answered no, please read this post and reconsider your answer.

I'll be here, eagerly awaiting your reply.

For one, the apple is green, perhaps even yellow.
Unfair IS an opinion word. Want me to prove it? check the spoiler, if you don't care then skip it

Spoiler

Lets take another opinion word, dirty.
http://www.thomasmeares.com/photogallery/Traditional%20African%20Houses.JPG (Unsupported image host) Now, most people would consider a living situation such as this to be dirty with dirt floors and mud walls. However, for some people this is normal, they eat off the floor, they drink from muddy water. To them it is not dirty, it is everyday life. It is normal. Dirty is a word that is used as judgement, not observation. An observation of this picture would be facts such as the floor is dirt, the roof is straw, etc. As soon as you put opinion into it, it becomes a biased statement.

Now that you have that concept on your mind, lets take the word unfair. Now, for someone it may be unfair that their older brother gets to stay up later than they do, but maybe for other younger brothers it is seen as fair seeing as they are older. Really, the term fair and unfair could be used in numerous examples that prove to be based on bias and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES . Some people have seen things others have not and can base their opinion using knowledge not everyone has. Is it fair that america exploits illegal aliens? Is it fair that the US even has a border to begin with whereas other countries (not many) let people in willy nilly? Is it fair that people in mexico have to live in a drugged out environment that America keeps them in because of border policies? Some would say yes, others would say no baised on personal beliefs and experiences. "unfair" IS an opinion word.

Now for what I personally believe, is there not rooms where iDevice and PC players can spar each other? IMO there should be at least one of each, iOS vs PC, PC vs PC, iOS vs iOS. That way people can choose what they want based on what they personally believe to be fair or unfair

Posted by Thallen

I tell Person A, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a gun.

I tell Person B, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a knife.

Person A and Person B fight. Person A shoots Person B in the head before he can even get within distance to stab him.

Following the logic of a huge portion of this thread, you would claim that the fight was unfair. But can you explain how it was unfair when both were given the exact same choice?

Person B chose the knife. Does this elementary analogy do it for you? Can you now see why I think some of you are just flat out whiners and idiots for choosing to use the iDevice when you claim that the PC is obviously better?

invalid really, some people are forced to play on one or the other because their iPod broke or their computer is fried. This does not apply to everyone, so really this point makes no sense.  

Posted by Jester Lapse

Now that you have that concept on your mind, lets take the word unfair. Now, for someone it may be unfair that their older brother gets to stay up later than they do, but maybe for other younger brothers it is seen as fair seeing as they are older. Really, the term fair and unfair could be used in numerous examples that prove to be based on bias and PERSONAL EXPERIENCES. Some people have seen things others have not and can base their opinion using knowledge not everyone has. Is it fair that america exploits illegal aliens? Is it fair that the US even has a border to begin with whereas other countries (not many) let people in willy nilly? Is it fair that people in mexico have to live in a drugged out environment that America keeps them in because of border policies? Some would say yes, others would say no baised on personal beliefs and experiences.

That is a terrible example, actually. Just because it is popular to use words incorrectly in casual conversation does not mean that it gives new definition to the word.

Fair and unfair have nothing to do with bias, personal experience, or opinion. Sorry to put it bluntly, but you are just incorrect. Just because someone says or agrees that something is fair or unfair does not mean that it is or isn't, nor does it mean they are using the word correctly.

It would be completely unfair for the older brother to stay up later than the younger brother. Why? Because only one side was given that choice. Thus, it's very clearly unfair. Don't you get that? Just because the older brother has the "opinion" that it is fair doesn't mean that it changes the reality of the situation. It is very clearly unfair, and the equation proves it. Fairness can be proven in any situation. In conversation, you can use the words "fair" and "unfair" to try and personalize a situation, but you're taking away from the true meaning of the word. You are making a huge mistake in allowing one's dialect to alter the true definition of a word.

Posted by Jester Lapse

invalid really, some people are forced to play on one or the other because their iPod broke or their computer is fried. This does not apply to everyone, so really this point makes no sense.

If they are forced to do something by anyone or anything other than the game, the game and its rules are still fair. You need to accept this concept. Life is unfair, bro. It's not my fault or Graal's fault that you don't have a PC or that you broke your iPod, and it doesn't affect the fairness that the game offers to every player in any way.

Your argument is then reduced to, "It is unfair that you have a PC and I do not." I agree, it is unfair. Why is it unfair though? It's unfair because of choices or mistakes that you've made. Not me, and not the game.  

Posted by Thallen

I tell Person A, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a gun.

I tell Person B, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a knife.

Person A and Person B fight. Person A shoots Person B in the head before he can even get within distance to stab him.

Following the logic of a huge portion of this thread, you would claim that the fight was unfair. But can you explain how it was unfair when both were given the exact same choice?

Person B chose the knife. Does this elementary analogy do it for you? Can you now see why I think some of you are just flat out whiners and idiots for choosing to use the iDevice when you claim that the PC is obviously better?

Lol ur ******ed
Ur to stupid to even the understand the argument. The argument has never about not wanting to use a pc. People play on whatever they want and the fact still stands pc s are stronger than idevices.
I tell Person A, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a gun.

I tell Person B, "Would you like to use a knife or a gun?" He picks a knife.
Person B had two
snipers in place mr speed and mr speedboost
Person A and Person B fight. Mr xspeed shoots Person A in the head before he can even get within distance to shoot him.

Following the logic of a huge portion of this thread, you would claim that the fight was unfair. But can you explain how it was unfair when both were given the exact same choice?
ALREADY TOLD YOU THAT YOU SUCK AT USING EXAMPLES  

Posted by Thallen

Fair and unfair have nothing to do with bias,

Again the dictionary
fair1 [fair] Show IPA adjective, fair·er, fair·est, adverb, fair·er, fair·est, noun, verb
adjective
1.
free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge.

so it is safe to assume the word unfair, being the opposite, contains bias. Really, if you wanted to you could twist anything to seem fair or unfair.

if fair and unfair is so cut and dry, then why is everyone divided on it?
http://www.google.com/#hl=en&tbo=d&s...w=1527&bih=871  

Posted by Jester Lapse

Again the dictionary
fair1 [fair] Show IPA adjective, fair·er, fair·est, adverb, fair·er, fair·est, noun, verb
adjective
1.
free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice: a fair decision; a fair judge

?!?! It's like you're proving MY point. YOU are misunderstanding the things that you are citing.

The dictionary agrees with me that the word "fair" represents something that cannot be affected by bias.

So yes, unfair would clearly mean that something may include bias. My claim that it has "nothing to do with bias" means that your bias cannot effect the state of how unfair something is.
As in, you cannot say, "Nah, I don't think that's unfair," when you give one person 3 grapes and another person only 2 grapes. Basically, you're being biased about bias, and when bias is even included in the equation then clearly it's unfair. Are you following me?

I don't need to click your link because again, you're taking the discussion of others and trying to substitute dialect for vocabulary. People will always casually misuse the words "fair" and "unfair" for the lack of a better word.  

ok well then the only fair thing is what I said about different rooms. Free from bias, all options are available and people can choose. Idk why you're still going when what I said basically assimilates what you were trying to say lol.  

Sounds to me like you're agreeing with everything I've said after making a post where you question my intelligence. Either we're both idiots or you just spoke too soon, I guess.

In the grand scheme of things, it doesn't matter because several people in this thread have made up their mind that they will be relentless in refusing to cooperate with certain parts of this argument, no matter how logical the viewpoint is. I'm completely willing to read and try to understand anyone else's take on the situation, I just haven't seen a single argument thus far that I can't counter by quoting something I've posted earlier in the week.

You guys can keep offering your "opinions" as long as you can manage to control yourself when I reply with facts to contradict or challenge them.  

This 'discussion' is dragging on a bit.

> People say that PC has an advantage over iDevices
> Thallen says that if PC has an advantage over iDevices, use PC so you're not disadvantaged
> People respond and say that's not the topic
> ???
> Repeat over and over

Like really, is anyone actually reading what is being said in this thread? You're all arguing over something which everyone (bar the few that tried to argue technicalities, but that hasn't been discussed in the last few pages) has agreed upon.  

Posted by Jester Lapse

Seems you are the one lacking intelligence, or the "ability to understand" seeing as you are so narrow-minded only listening to yourself and take into consideration only what you have to say, not others. Everyone else is responding to your points whereas you fail to respond to others with anything other than "du u evn spar bro?!" Kindly learn the words you use before using them.

Posted by Jester Lapse

Admittedly I did read the last 2 pages only, and within those last two pages you just made yourself seem like a total prick. If you have nothing further or different to say, then don't? Everyone is allowed their own opinion even if it differs from yours. There is a difference between constructive conversations and arguments and just thinking you are right and everyone else is stupid which seems to be how your thinking is going at the moment.

I still stand by these based on the past 2 pages before I commented. I also disagree with you saying fair and unfair are set in specifications. Sorta like saying good and bad are also set in stone. I honestly have no interest in this topic at all really, sparring on era is more fun imo than classic. Just got tired of seeing stupid bickering and pointless crap that didn't progress the thread discussion at all.

Posted by Rufus

(bar the few that tried to argue technicalities, but that hasn't been discussed in the last few pages) has agreed upon.

Posted by Jester Lapse

PC and iDevice sparring is not equal, just as iPad vs iTouch is not. PC Clients suck and lag, skyridder does it a bit better than facebook. PC gives you a better sense of controls whereas on iDevice a simple finger slip could screw you.

I prefer playing any graal server from pc simply because of the advantage of having more view space than even ipad, better controls and easier to type. iOS is less laggy and more suited. They are different, therefor they should remain different spars.

Only reason I think era has not done separate spars on their server is simply because it is impossible to spar from pc there due to lag for the sake of comparing to other servers.

Posted by Rufus

Like really, is anyone actually reading what is being said in this thread?

?  

Posted by Jester Lapse

I also disagree with you saying fair and unfair are set in specifications. Sorta like saying good and bad are also set in stone.

Well, I challenge you to give me any scenario and I'll tell you if a situation in that scenario is fair or unfair, and I'll explain to you exactly why. It won't be an opinion, either. It's that simple really.

You can't use the word "fair" like the word "fat." What is fat? Is 200 pounds fat? Is 300 pounds fat? Is there an official scale we should use that outlines the limits on the word fat? Fat to you could only be chubby to me. Fat is an opinion word when you see it by definition.

Fairness isn't like that.
I didn't want the thread to turn into an analysis of the English language, but whatever. I'm done for right now guys, thanks for reading.